On 1st & 10 Team A throws an incomplete pass. On 2nd & 10 team A runs a running play and is called for holding. Does the clock start on the ready or on the snap.

Rule Reference please.

unless the action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped, start it on the ready.
NF 3-4-2(b3

Same in NCAA, not sure of rule reference.

REPLY: NCAA reference is 3-2-5a

Situation: A is up by 7 points, 1:45 left in the game on A's 10 yard line. After running play by A (no first down, inbounds), the referee blows ball ready for play and clock starts. After 25 seconds, A has not snapped the ball, delay of game is called, clock is stopped. After penalty enforcement, ball is blow ready for play, and referee starts the clock. What's to prevent A from taking consecutive delay of game penalties until the clock runs out and the game is over? Am I missing something, or is this possible?

The clock doesn't start until the ball is snapped after a delay of game penalty.

Only under Federation Rules
 

Only under NFHS rules does the clock never start after a delay of game.

NCAA - Normally starts on the RFP - Referee's discrection

NFL - Normally starts on the RFP - Referee's discrection

In the sample play listed above, it would not start under all three codes.

"BktBallRef The clock doesn't start until the ball is snapped after a delay of game penalty. "

Federation rules: Why does it not start? Is there a rule reference? Seems to me that the only way to prevent that is to use the "Referee Discretion" clause of the timing rule.

see casebook 3.4.3 sit-B and 3.6.3 sit-B.

rule ref is 3-4-3-i

I was white-hatting a freshman game last night.

The score was tied 8-8 late in the game and the visiting team had the ball. We were headed towards a tie (no OT in Frosh games in WI). The offense had a horrible time getting a play in and headed to the line with only 5 seconds left on the 25-second clock. They didn't get it off. I kill the clock, toss a flag, and we enfore the delay.

I start the play clock, but not the game clock.

I had 2 of the 3 other officials on me immediately, telling me I needed to run the clock. I said, "Not on a delay," and kept the clock stopped.

We had a timeout and the U is still interested in this. I told him I'd show him in the rule book after the game, and he told me I was wrong that it runs unless I think they were intentionally trying to consume time.

So, we get to the car and he gets a rulebook in hand. I tell him if I don't find it in 30 seconds I'll concede and head home. I find it in 5.

After showing him the relevant passage he still disagreed with me and told me there was a case play involving referee discretion. I mentioned that the passage he was talking about referred to other fouls where the clock would normally run (e.g., taking an intentional encroachment penalty to run time off the clock, etc.). Still didn't believe me. I went home.

I'm a fill-in on this crew (I'm on a different varsity crew this season and have my own next season) and I just don't think I got through. Oh, well.

Rich

Rich, where in the case book does it say not to run the clock after a delay? (NF Rules). It may be right in front of my face, but I cant find it. I would have agreed with your crew...but I reserve the right to be wrong on this one!

I just pointed you to two casebook situations and the rule book reference.

Thiesey:

I don't like the first reference, because that is specifically referencing 3-6-3, which is the rule that talks about illegally consuming or conserving time.

The second reference is better because it says that in a delay situation the clock is automatically started on the snap.

We don't NEED the case book. The rule is simple. I'll quote it in its entirety, well, leaving out the part about free kicks:

3-4-3: The clock shall start with the snap if the clock was stopped because:

(i) the penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted.

End of story. Other team accepts the penalty, the clock starts on the snap.

Why people "guess" in these situations is unclear to me. Pick up the rulebook and READ.

BTW, there are other delay penalties besides the play clock. Failure to properly wear required equipment prior to the snap is also a delay of game penalty as are all the other instances mentioned in 3-6-2. If a penalty is called in any of these instances, the clock starts on the snap in NFHS football, unless the team penalizing is trying to conserve time illegally or for some reason the penalty is declined.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Oct 10th, 2003 at 12:23 PM]

Right, the casebook is not really needed. The rule ref was about as specific as you can get.

NCAA doesn't have that rule, per se, but it's a good rule of thumb to use "referee's discretion" to start the clock on the snap after a delay if there's even the remotest possibility that it will matter. Meaning - near the end of a quarter I won't start it after a DOG, but at the beginning of one, I will. Also, at any time if there are 2 consecutive DOG's, I will start it on the snap.

In any case, since it is, in NCAA, "referee's discretion", and you were the referee - then whichever way you ruled it would have been right.