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-   -   OHSAA Suspends Official Over Social Media (https://forum.officiating.com/football/102975-ohsaa-suspends-official-over-social-media.html)

SC Official Thu Oct 05, 2017 05:48pm
OHSAA Suspends Official Over Social Media
 
https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...could-be-next/

HLin NC Fri Oct 06, 2017 06:42am
Don't criticize in public the organization that oversees your avocation would be the lesson to take away from this. B&*%$ all you want to your co-workers and supervisors, just don't air it out for the world to see.

Free speech only gets you so far.

jTheUmp Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:26am
And this is why I only post things on Facebook approximately 3 times per year, and never about officiating stuff.

The phrase "silence can't be misquoted" comes to mind.

sorrydog Sun Oct 08, 2017 08:54am
So what did he write?

udbrky Mon Oct 09, 2017 01:33am
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ial-media.html

Texas Aggie Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:29pm
This COULD be problematic for the OHSAA IF they are organized in any way as a public entity. The comment, "Any reasonable person who reads your postings would doubt your ability to fairly a game, regardless of whether or not you actually do call them fairly. This is not an issues of politics. It’s an issue of respect." is false.

This is petty and makes the OHSAA, who should know better, look like idiots.

In a time of crisis involving the shortage of officials, the OHSAA does what it should be telling its officials not to do: grow big ears, get defensive, and respond harshly to criticism.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 1010092)
This COULD be problematic for the OHSAA IF they are organized in any way as a public entity. The comment, "Any reasonable person who reads your postings would doubt your ability to fairly a game, regardless of whether or not you actually do call them fairly. This is not an issues of politics. It’s an issue of respect." is false.

This is petty and makes the OHSAA, who should know better, look like idiots.

In a time of crisis involving the shortage of officials, the OHSAA does what it should be telling its officials not to do: grow big ears, get defensive, and respond harshly to criticism.

The OhioHSAA is not a public organization. It is a private organization made up of its member schools. And therefore, can make its own rules.

MTD, Sr.

Texas Aggie Mon Oct 16, 2017 06:59pm
Quote:
It is a private organization made up of its member schools.
According to filings, it is an unincorporated association. If it IS made up of member schools -- mostly public schools -- it COULD (depending on federal and state case law) fall under the area of a quasi-public agency. If public school districts got together and formed an association, that wouldn't make them (or the association) private.

Quote:
And therefore, can make its own rules.
They can make their own rules whether they are public or private, but public entities (and this is at worst, an open question here) can't violate constitutional protections of free speech. That's exactly what this smacks of. I've never, in my almost 30 years of officiating, heard of anyone suspended for anything other than what constituted really bad behavior ON the field/court, a criminal offense, or something like not showing up for an assignment.

Have you?

The other problem (for the OHSAA) is that school districts themselves usually have some form of governmental immunity by statute. It is unlikely this association has it.

Do you really like the idea of your association suspending you for saying something critical about them? I don't.

scrounge Mon Oct 16, 2017 08:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 1010151)

Do you really like the idea of your association suspending you for saying something critical about them? I don't.
If it reaches the point where it's undermining and subverting the organization - and the organization follows their own bylaws and procedures to provide him some measure of procedural due process, I don't see any issue with it.

The much larger item are the very many offensive and downright bigoted things he's said. The facebook, twitter, and blog are there for all to see, not going to repeat any of it here. And absolutely NONE of this is anything other than my opinion - I don't know the guy, I don't know anything about the case at OHSAA, nothing. But after seeing what he wrote? I don't ever want him as a partner myself, and I agree that it casts serious and material doubt as to his fitness to fairly officiate.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Oct 16, 2017 09:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 1010151)
According to filings, it is an unincorporated association. If it IS made up of member schools -- mostly public schools -- it COULD (depending on federal and state case law) fall under the area of a quasi-public agency. If public school districts got together and formed an association, that wouldn't make them (or the association) private.



They can make their own rules whether they are public or private, but public entities (and this is at worst, an open question here) can't violate constitutional protections of free speech. That's exactly what this smacks of. I've never, in my almost 30 years of officiating, heard of anyone suspended for anything other than what constituted really bad behavior ON the field/court, a criminal offense, or something like not showing up for an assignment.

Have you?

The other problem (for the OHSAA) is that school districts themselves usually have some form of governmental immunity by statute. It is unlikely this association has it.

Do you really like the idea of your association suspending you for saying something critical about them? I don't.

The OhioHSAA membership is made up of both public and private schools, much like the NCAA.

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Tue Oct 17, 2017 08:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1010154)
The OhioHSAA membership is made up of both public and private schools, much like the NCAA.

MTD, Sr.
It applies to most state associations. My state is also a private organization. Not all schools are members.

Peace

FMadera Tue Oct 17, 2017 09:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 1010151)
AThey can make their own rules whether they are public or private, but public entities (and this is at worst, an open question here) can't violate constitutional protections of free speech. That's exactly what this smacks of.
Constitutional protections of free speech don't protect you from the repercussions of said speech. You have a right to say certain things. You are not immune from any fallout from it.

If I call my boss a jerk on Twitter, I can't be surprised if I get written up at work.

ajmc Tue Oct 17, 2017 09:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 1010151)

Do you really like the idea of your association suspending you for saying something critical about them? I don't.
It sometimes depends on what you've learned (or been taught) compared to what you need to learn. "Washing your laundry IN PUBLIC" has long been considered (and advertised) as a bad idea. In most organizations (public, private, even government) there are protocols available to handle disagreements WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.

Yes, we are very fortunate, that here, we are able to, pretty much say whatever we want whenever we choose to. That doesn't guarantee we can do so without consequences, which often turn out to be a lot harsher than anticipated, and can cause deeper "self inflicted" wounds than anticipated.

We enjoy "Free Speech", not a "Free Ride"and it's always a smart idea to know what the fare might be BEFORE choosing to board.

jTheUmp Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:04am
In other words, this:
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png

Click the link, hover your mouse over the comic, and you'll see this:
Quote:
I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.

CT1 Wed Oct 18, 2017 06:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrounge (Post 1010152)
But after seeing what he wrote? I don't ever want him as a partner myself, and I agree that it casts serious and material doubt as to his fitness to fairly officiate.
I'm connected to very few of my fellow local officials on social media, so I have no idea what they might be posting.

I judge my partners by their performance on the field -- no more, no less.


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