when is possession gained

[wedickinson]

During a scrimmage kick (punt), the ball is snapped over K1's head. K1 along with a couple of R players scramble for the loose ball. As K1 attempts to gain possession of the ball, he is contacted by R1. R1 one then places a hand on top of the ball while his knee is on the ground and pushes himself off the ground. He picks the ball off the ground and runs into the endzone. What's the call?

[Huskerblue]

I would give R the ball where his knee was down.

[PiggSkin]

I guess I would base my decision on what happened with the ball as he rose... If he stood up, and the ball never left his hand, chances are that he possessed it while his knee was on the ground...

But if for some reason as he was rising, he removed his hand from the ball, then picked it up, I think you would have a good case for saying he didn't have possession while he was down...

IMHO, the safest (and more often than not, most correct) call is probably to rule the player down... There's no reason that a player can't have possession with only one hand...

But it's hard to say for sure without seeing the play...

[Theisey]

definition 2-32: A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he as caught or recovered it.

pinning the ball to the ground with ones hand is not a recovery nor is in player possession.

[wedickinson]

I ruled the play a touchdown. In my opinion, the player did not have possession of the ball when he was 'leaning' on the ball as he got up. It looked 'weird', the coach whose team was scored on questioned it; I explained to him what I had........I thought this play was worth sharing because it was somewhat unusual.

[JMN]

Originally posted by Theisey
definition 2-32: A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he as caught or recovered it.

I would say that the ball pinned against the ground by R does constitute "CONTROL".

I would blow the whistle since he controlled the ball with his knee on the ground and I would emphatically SELL THE SPOT.If you sell the spot, you will have little argument.

If you're not sure about the combination of a knee on the ground at the same time as the ball being pinned by R, then you have nothing but a live, loose ball.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by JMN

I would say that the ball pinned against the ground by R does constitute "CONTROL".

I would blow the whistle since he controlled the ball with his knee on the ground and I would emphatically SELL THE SPOT.If you sell the spot, you will have little argument.

If you're not sure about the combination of a knee on the ground at the same time as the ball being pinned by R, then you have nothing but a live, loose ball.

Based on the information supplied I have to agree. Sellign the call is the most important thing here.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JMN

I would say that the ball pinned against the ground by R does constitute "CONTROL".

I thought so too, intitially, after reading Tom's post. BUT, (notice the big BUT) the rule states control AFTER the recovery. Take out the words that don't apply to this situation.

A ball in player possession is a live ball...controlled by a player after...he has...recovered it.

[PiggSkin]

How does one recover the ball without controlling it..? Also, how does one control the ball without recovering it..? I really don't want to be the one explaining that ruling to the coach...

"You see, the player controlled the ball while his knee was on the ground, but he didn't recover it until he got up..."