Illegal pick play?
 

In the Clemson-Alabama game, there appeared to be some pick plays, but the one that stands out was Clemson's final score when the wide receiver goes in and there is contact by the DB. It appeared that the wide receiver initiated the contact since he never tried to avoid the defender, and it is difficult to determine where contact was initiated....it looks so close to the line of scrimmage....but nevertheless it freed up the inside receiver for the winning score.

Sure looked like a pick to me.


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Not Just A Pick
 

To me that was way more blatant than a pick play, that was a good old fashioned block. The receiver just plain blocked the DB.

It was not illegal IMO. The defender engaged the receiver immediately and the receiver never extended this arms or even used his arms to run a route. This contact is all on the defender. And you can see the defender wrap the receiver at the snap. Not calling OPI there at all. That is how you execute that play and it was done properly.

Peace

If anything it was defensive holding for the DB throwing down the receiver.

Sure, his intention was to block, but the DB reached out and threw the receiver to the ground before he could.

Yea, I had no problem with the last play. The defender grabbed him and threw him down. Now the previous Clemson TD? Egregious OPI, but the final play was fine.

The receiver sold that one well. Almost too well, to be honest.

I'm not sure of the officiating take-away for that -- stay with your key longer?

Agreed. That was not OPI.

That would have been the SJ's key. From his angle I would think it might be difficult to determine where the contact occurred so he would need help from the H? But the H has the inside receiver who eventually caught the pass. Bottom line, I think it was a good no call. It just looked bad and if I remember, there was at least one more scoring pass play where there was an apparent illegal pick that was not called.

Not OPI. Receiver was not blocking and defender did throw the receiver to the ground. Excellent coaching and the receiver executed properly.
I will be surprised if Coach Saban questions this play, because there were many other issues to be concerned about that led to Clemson being in a position to win this game.

I knew this would get posted...

And I knew the seasoned officials would immediately dismiss it as legal.

I agree with those that had a much bigger problem with the previous TD. I think the pick play is a mechanical hole in both the NCAA and NFL systems.

What does "mechanical hole" mean? That the officials' mechanics are such as to make it too difficult a call? Gap in coverage? Even with as many officials as they have?

Try it in the games I'm used to, with 3-official crews. The only saving grace there is that there's not much passing in most divisions. The past couple seasons in the Warriors they were doing it on scrimmage plays w U & L on the wings, R in the O backfield.

VI. Before the ball is thrown, wide receiver A88 slants to the inside
where linebacker B1 attempts to block him. A88 uses his hands to
shove B1 away. RULING: Team A foul, offensive pass interference, if
the legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone. If B1’s initial contact
was below the waist and beyond the neutral zone, Team B also has
fouled and the live-ball fouls offset

V.. Before the ball is thrown, wide receiver A88 moves four yards
downfield directly toward and in front of the defender, B1. At
this spot, B1 pushes A88, who then uses his hands to contact B1.
RULING: Team A foul, offensive pass interference, if the legal
forward pass is beyond the neutral zone. Penalty—15 yards from the
previous spot

Nice try, but neither of these things happened on the last TD.

Hire a 4th official. Even 4th grade games here are played with 4 now.

Heck hire 5 if it is "all about the kids." Then you have everything covered and not much ambiguousness at that level.

Peace

7.3.8.b says it is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid contact.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1yUFgQWQAEyTwH.jpg

Hard to tell if he avoids it when the defender initiates it and pulls the receiver to the ground.

Yep.

And if I have to guess, I am not making that call.

Peace

If anything, this is a foul on the defense for initiating contact. Definitely not OPI. As for the earlier Clemson TD at the start of the 4th quarter, that was OPI.

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What if then if the defender, upon contact by the offensive player, instead of engaging backed off after the initial contact? Would a flag be justified then?

In the photo posted by bigjohn, the DB's eyes appear to be focused on #13 and that makes me think he had no intention to engage the wide receiver.

Sure, with the rich kids. :rolleyes:

But I'd still like to know what MD Longhorn meant by "mechanical hole".

A picture may say 1000 words, but a video shows 1000 pictures. Watch this whole sequence ... this photo is misleading.

https://youtu.be/czDFgvjtt4I

Here is the video, I don't see A avoiding contact.

He is not supposed to avoid contact. He is allowed to run his route. The defender bit on the route and engaged that player.

I work deep wing in college and if I see that, then I am not calling any foul on that if that is my key or my area. Because when you have players up on coverage, they often bite on moves and that was the reason the inside guy was up. It was the coverage as well. Sorry, I doubt we will ever see anyone complain about this play from the NCAA because they would have to advocate many more fouls. That is why many defenses call a zone coverage at that part of the field. You make the wrong move, you leave someone open. The defender took on the guy on the inside.

Peace

And I can say from my years as a college deep wing they don't advocate throwing a lot of marginal flags. When in doubt, the flag stays in the belt.

Illegal Contact and Pass Interference
ARTICLE 8. a. During a down in which a legal forward pass crosses the
neutral zone, illegal contact by Team A and Team B players is prohibited
from the time the ball is snapped until it is touched by any player or an
official (A.R. 7-3-8-II).
b. Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone
during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the
neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player. It
is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents

You can post it in big letters all you like. You would never survive at the college level if that is what you would call.

BTW, what "category" do you put this in? If you do not know what I am talking about, then you do not anything about this application of the rule?

Peace

There are four classifications of OPI: 1) blocking downfield (or pick plays), 2) shoving or pushing off, 3) driving through a defender, and 4) the receiver turning into a defender.


http://www.nkoafootball.org/smembers...g/hardcall.doc


I think it is pretty obvious the Offense initiated the contact. That is my opinion.

You're entitled to be wrong.

And he did none of those.

Offensive can run routes. They run routes by running from one position to another. If the defense goes with them, that is no them. There was no separation on the play or even any major push from the spot. The defender tried to take away the inside move (which many are taught to do) and never tried to go outside with the other receiver. Which this was likely a play designed by film study and figured the outside guy would bite on the play. He did and as an official, I need either separation or material contact to make that call, especially in this part of the field (notice I did not say game). The first play at the goal line was closer, but even then, the defender went with that guy as well. If he pushes off and gets separation, then maybe you have a flag. But that is very marginal. It was well executed and why there was no foul called either time if you ask me.

Peace

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/9/142...terference-rub

Pretty sketchy if you ask me. I see a defender backing up gets hit on outside number and gets driven off the ball.

Everyone wanted Clemson to win, Hell I wanted Clemson to win. I thought it was OPI though. And Bama deserves to lose because they let it happen twice!

Honestly, if you have not done it, then really your opinion is really what it is, just an opinion. It does not make it a good one or even right.

I told you some time ago, put in the stripes and come talk to me.

Peace

Maybe this will put the argument to bed. Redding has already weighed in and agreed that it a good no call since the defender initiated contact.

https://twitter.com/ralphDrussoAP/st...82978029928453

In one of Dominique Foxworth's radio segments the other morning, he said the problem with the defense was both DB's were in press coverage at the line. One or both of the DB's playing off should have been able to avoid or reduce the benefit of the pick, so it's on the players for not doing what they are taught or the coaches for not teaching them a technique they needed to succeed.

But officials are the easy target.

I puzzled over that one until I realized it meant, "the receiver turning in to a defender".