LOD on 4th down

[whitehat]

Concerning a measurement: If you have the privilege of working on a very well marked field (as in an artificial surface) then of course between the 20's you try to start a 1st down on a hash or yard line, then knowing if the dead ball spot has reached that hash ten yards down field you don't measure. If you start on a half yard spot it's a little trickier. The tape on the chain helps, but at best, Umpires footsteps are an imprecise science. If the covering official is on his game he will ensure the spot of the foul (even by moving his flag) is not that close either way....:-)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Concerning a measurement: If you have the privilege of working on a very well marked field (as in an artificial surface) then of course between the 20's you try to start a 1st down on a hash or yard line, then knowing if the dead ball spot has reached that hash ten yards down field you don't measure. If you start on a half yard spot it's a little trickier. The tape on the chain helps, but at best, Umpires footsteps are an imprecise science. If the covering official is on his game he will ensure the spot of the foul (even by moving his flag) is not that close either way....:-)

But why sweat that, when determining the spot the passer lost possession of the ball is so imprecise? Does the passer have possession as long as his passing hand is merely touching it? There's got to be a certain point in the throwing motion where the only control the player has of the ball is aiming it a little, and the player couldn't actually do anything else with it but release it; is it still a "run" at that point ("held or controlled")?

[whitehat]

Robert, I don't understand your question...what I am saying is on any spot foul there is a little wiggle room as to where the flag actually falls. What we would not want to happen is if technically its 5.0 yards exactly that still leaves the ball at or beyond the line to gain, then we don't want an umpire to step off "5 yards and 2 inches" and the ball goes over to B. or the other way around.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Robert, I don't understand your question...what I am saying is on any spot foul there is a little wiggle room as to where the flag actually falls. What we would not want to happen is if technically its 5.0 yards exactly that still leaves the ball at or beyond the line to gain, then we don't want an umpire to step off "5 yards and 2 inches" and the ball goes over to B. or the other way around.

Why blame him, when the person who indicated the spot of the foul was off by 4 inches?

Are you afraid that someone on the bench, accepting the spot of the foul as correct, has surveyor's tools and can see the U paced off 2" too much?

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why blame him, when the person who indicated the spot of the foul was off by 4 inches?

Are you afraid that someone on the bench, accepting the spot of the foul as correct, has surveyor's tools and can see the U paced off 2" too much?

Robert, not blaming anyone, nor afraid...just offering some suggestions as to how we might avoid unnecessary problems arising when we engage in that imperfect and imprecise art of measuring and foul spotting. We just do the best we can and go with it.

Regarding when the clock starts: 3.4.3h and 3.4.6 should be considered. "When a team attempts to conserve time illegally, the R shall order the clock stopped or started." Case book 3.4.6 Situation A allows for an illegal forward incomplete pass to be started on the RFP.