Football Plays to Review (Video)
 

I am willing to do the same thing that I did for the basketball site for the football season.

Here are a couple of plays to consider for the weekend.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_874GRIP3S8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you have a play you would like to be discussed, I would need the game, the time of the game and what the play involves like the penalty or the situation and if there is replay would help.

I will let it be known that football is harder to do this as the clips are longer. But if I have specifics, this can be easier.

I also will not be doing as many games and mostly NCAA games. The NFL games might be harder to do alone because of my schedule.

I just wanted to see if we can make this place more of a discussion on actual plays and not always creating plays out of the sky or without some discussion points.

Peace

Process of the catch
 

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Peace

KCI/Targeting play
 

Last one in this thread.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fMXWDJAezgM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Discuss away!!!

Peace

Play 1: Roughing the Snapper. Team A gets choice to: a) decline the penalty and take the points, or b) accept the penalty and get an untimed down to end the half. (Full disclosure: I've previously worked with 2 of the officials that worked this game).

Play 2: Incomplete.

Play 3: I could see an argument for not having KCI, but this is definitely targeting.

One of the officials in the game is from one of my associations and was referenced in the conversation about the enforcement.

Also, are your options NCAA or NF or both? Because I believe the NF enforcement is different.

Peace

I was referring strictly to NCAA enforcement in my original post.

For FED:
Play 1: still RTS. K can enforce from the previous spot and have an untimed down, or keep the points and have the 15 yards enforced on the subsequent kickoff at the start of the second half (which is what they did in this game).

Play 2: incomplete.

Play 3: not KCI, but is still targeting.

From an NFHS perspective; Play # 1: Definitely Roughing the Snapper, FG was good, K has option of replaying the down, 15 yds closer during an untimed down OR accepting the score and having the penalty enforced at the succeeding spot, which would be the 2nd half KO (8-4-3-b)

Play #2: The player appears to gain clear possession in the air and maintain it through touching the ground (with both feet) in the endzone, after which the contact drives him to the ground, and contact with the ground dislodges the ball.

The covering official was in excellent position to see the play unfold, and under NCAA rules correctly ruled the pass incomplete. Under NFHS rules, I'd call a TD.(2-4-1)

Play # 3: Both KCI and PF Targeting is correct, and in an NFHS game, #21 (Tenn) is absolutely done for the day and gone. (2-20-2, 9-4-3-m: Disqualification also if any fouls under this article are judged by the game official to be flagrant)

The opening kickoff of Vandy/SC would also be a good play for discussion.

You ain't never lie on that one.

Here is the play.

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Peace

The entire ball didn't come out but his knee didn't touch the ground.

For NCAA the knee not touching the ground isn't relevant to this play. By rule, "the ball becomes dead ... when a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground" (NCAA 4-1-3o). So if we determine the ball didn't leave the end zone, then we have a dead ball ending in the end zone and a touchback.

Did not know this. Thanks.

I could be wrong, but I think it was added to prevent teams from having the QB fake kneeling to get the defense to relax and then taking a shot right before halftime.

Not a football official, but I like to think I know the rules. :) I look forward to the rest of the discussion in the thread.

#1. Penalty should be applied on the succeeding kickoff, I guess (???). (Rule 10, Art. 5) However, I freely admit I have no idea how halftime plays into this. (Sidebar: if it was an unsportsmanlike conduct personal foul, say, for fighting, is it enforced the same, i.e. after the half?)

#2. Incomplete. (NCAA AR 7-3-6 XIII)

#3. I personally don't have KCI here, but definitely targeting. Eject. (Forcible contact to head or neck of defenseless opponent; clearly the returner meets the qualifications of 2.14.d)

#4. We don't have a great angle here, but it doesn't look like the entire ball crosses the plane of the goal line. Touchback.

Western Michigan @ Northwestern
 

If you have it available, I would love to see the entire play with review of the Northwestern drive at 3:01 in the 4th period. It's the wild fumble into the end zone, WM recovery followed by an illegal bat (or forward pass). It ended up being called a touchback. Thanks

"No cheap scores, no cheap turnovers."

Given what it looks like SC was trying to pull here the cheapness would be well earned, unfortunately the ball never left the endzone.

Video of play (but not final ruling) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_ytv3tnAc

Here's what I see:
(1) Fumble clearly happens before ball breaks plane; fumble is the force that puts the ball into EZ.
(2) Defender possesses ball inbounds in the EZ, leaps, and tosses it back into field of play. This appears to be an illegal forward pass, though it is difficult to be certain of the angle.
(3) Ball lands inbounds in the EZ and is recovered by offense before they touch the pylon.

Seems pretty straightforward - decline penalty, touchdown. The question is whether the defender landed OOB before releasing the ball - the main video does not really have a good angle on this, though the inset freeze frame looks like he *does* release the ball first.

Easier to embed the play.
 

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kd_ytv3tnAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

Assuming the parts in bold are true and the "passer" did not step OOB first, I don't believe this is a proper penalty enforcement.

If the Team B player stepped OOB before the pass: touchback.

If the team B player did not step OOB before throwing the pass: foul for illegal forward pass. Ball is dead as soon as it hits the ground (incomplete). Foul by Team B occurred in the end zone after Team B gained possession -> Safety.

Well something tells me that this play will be discussed on Tuesday at our meeting for multiple reasons. I will let you know on some level what is discussed.

Peace

But there was a holding foul by A, too. So, wouldn't the penalties offset and the down be replayed?

Also, is it possible the flag could have been for illegal batting rather than IFP?

I couldn't find a link with the entire play, so I was unaware of the holding foul. Given that... well, clean hands applies, but I don't think B will want to decline the penalty, so yes, offset and replay.

The flag *could* be for batting, but I don't think it should be. I would need to check the NCAA definition of bat to be sure, but I expect that once the ball is possessed by the defender, it's no longer going to be batting but passing...

... and yet, I came up with the enforcement for batting. :P (Probably because that's how it was labeled in the video.) jTheUmp is correct that if this is an illegal forward pass, it's dead when it hits the ground.

Did the play go to a replay review?

After watching this play many times, and hearing Dick Honig's explanation, it's my opinion that we had a play with double fouls and should have had a replay.

It bothers me that they came up with "B was OOB before the ball left his hand" when the covering official (H) didn't blow his whistle to signify that the B player was OOB, and indeed continued to officiate the play.

For what it's worth, I've seen nothing on this play other than the video Rut posted and the discussion here, so the rest of my post is under the assumption that no further information is available.

And I didn't notice the OH foul when I replied earlier.


I'm assuming that H didn't think that the Team B player stepped OOB before throwing the pass, which is why he continued to officiate.

Let's break it down:
1) Team A holding foul prior to the fumble.
2) Team A fumble at the 1-yard line (end of related run for holding foul).
3) Fumble goes from the field of play into the end zone (Team A impetus)
4) Fumble is recovered by Team B in the end zone, thus starting a new running play.
5) Team B illegal forward pass from end zone, which falls incomplete.
6) Incomplete pass is "recovered" by Team A in the end zone.

Scenario 1:
If replay comes in and says that the Team B player stepped OOB between #4 and #5, then the illegal forward pass never happened because the ball was dead.
Then, Team B can either decline the OH foul and take the result of the play (touchback), or accept the OH penalty enforcement and give the ball back to Team A. Obviously, they'll decline the penalty and take the ball.

Scenario 2:
If replay either doesn't get involved or determines that the Team B player threw the forward pass before stepping OOB:
The "recovery" by Team A in the end zone never happened, because the ball is dead as soon as the pass is incomplete.

Team B got the ball with clean hands, so they have the following options:
a) decline A's OH foul, and accept the penalty for the illegal forward pass, resulting in a safety (see my previous post)
b) offsetting fouls, replay the down.

Considering the score (Team B leading by 1), down/distance (1-Goal @ B-6), and time remaining (3:00ish in 4th), the choice isn't all that obvious for Team B.

Here is another video that does show that this play went to review

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