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OKREF Tue Jul 26, 2016 08:57am

New Mechanic
 
Went to state rules meeting on Saturday. Starting this year during non varsity contest, the HL and LJ will be switching positions at halftime. Starting with the 2017 season, this will be done at Varsity levels.

SE Minnestoa Re Tue Jul 26, 2016 01:34pm

Do the chains move as well? If they do, it will be difficult for the booth to see them. As a white hat, I look for different skill sets with the linesman and the judge. I expect my judge to maybe run a little better so he can assist with punts.

HLin NC Tue Jul 26, 2016 08:04pm

This is an NC AA mechanic that is starting to get some "me too" action at some state's HS level. Personally I think it is pointless. If I wanted to be a LJ, I would be one. I like working H. It's an answer in search of a question. Supposedly brings a perception of equality to the sidelines. Next we'll be having to get coaches and players a safe place and stop blowing those harsh whistles:rolleyes:

Altor Tue Jul 26, 2016 09:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 989377)
This is an NC AA mechanic

Actually, it's an NFL mechanic. The difference being the NFL switches the sides the chains are on when they do this...something that's not as easy to do in most NCAA and NFHS venues as the press box will have more difficulty seeing them on the near side.

HLin NC Wed Jul 27, 2016 07:47am

Which is why the NCAA just switches the wings and now the practicing Fed states, which is why I said its an NCAA mechanic.

OKREF Wed Jul 27, 2016 08:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 989365)
Do the chains move as well? If they do, it will be difficult for the booth to see them. As a white hat, I look for different skill sets with the linesman and the judge. I expect my judge to maybe run a little better so he can assist with punts.

The chains stay on the visiting side. If I remember correctly, this is coming from the NFHS, and not a state decision.

ajmc Wed Jul 27, 2016 08:23am

Is there a "rational" explanation as to what this accomplishes? It seems ONLY based on the flimsiest suspicion, that somewhere a wing official might have, or develop, a bias against a sideline.

Maybe if "sidelines" focused on what their responsibilities ACTUALLY are, instead of trying to fabricate excuses, or attempt to create unearned advantage, there wouldn't be any need to throw ALL officials under, what seems like an imaginary bus, to try and excuse self inflicted mistakes, or create imaginary ones by opponents.

Football, at any level, is a better game when there is less whining, and everyone focuses on their own responsibilities and performance, than worrying about what everyone else is doing.

HLin NC Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:00pm

Not a Fed decision or we'd all be doing it. They may be experimenting but it is not national.

JRutledge Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:51pm

Your state can do or not do any mechanic suggested. I would not be surprised if many states do not do this for all kinds of reasons. Nothing really to worry about at this point.

Peace

Cliffdweller Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 989365)
Do the chains move as well? If they do, it will be difficult for the booth to see them. As a white hat, I look for different skill sets with the linesman and the judge. I expect my judge to maybe run a little better so he can assist with punts.

Arizona is experimenting with this.
Chains start out on Home side then switch to visitor side to finish game including any overtimes. Ball boys switch also. Also changes where the Umpire lines up on kickoffs.

OKREF Tue Aug 02, 2016 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller (Post 989466)
Also changes where the Umpire lines up on kickoffs.

Our new mechanic for kickoffs is BJ on 40, on visitors sideline, U on 50, press box sideline. LJ on 15 press box sideline, HL on 15 visitors sideline, R middle of field on goal line

BktBallRef Fri Aug 05, 2016 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 989390)
The chains stay on the visiting side. If I remember correctly, this is coming from the NFHS, and not a state decision.

I don't think so. Haven't seen anything from the NFHS on this. This is a state option.

JRutledge Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 989608)
Our new mechanic for kickoffs is BJ on 40, on visitors sideline, U on 50, press box sideline. LJ on 15 press box sideline, HL on 15 visitors sideline, R middle of field on goal line

We had this for a year and then got rid of it like 2 years ago. Umpires hated it for the most part.

Peace

Welpe Sat Aug 06, 2016 09:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 989662)
I don't think so. Haven't seen anything from the NFHS on this. This is a state option.

There are a few states experimenting with it this year. I think it's an experimental mechanic change coming from the NFHS.

HLin NC Sun Aug 07, 2016 06:19am

Frankenstein was an experiment too. Jus' sayin'.:(

ajmc Mon Aug 08, 2016 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller (Post 989466)
Arizona is experimenting with this.
Chains start out on Home side then switch to visitor side to finish game including any overtimes. Ball boys switch also. Also changes where the Umpire lines up on kickoffs.

Another example of some squeaky wheel getting some extra oil it doesn't need. Pandering to whining NEVER works, all it EVER does is encourage more whining.

rriffle822 Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller (Post 989466)
Arizona is experimenting with this.
Chains start out on Home side then switch to visitor side to finish game including any overtimes. Ball boys switch also. Also changes where the Umpire lines up on kickoffs.

what is funny about this, is supposedly this came as a result of a survey with the coaches and then at coaches' meeting when they were told it was going to happen and how it was going to work, a number of the coaches complained about it.

Ruppsrevenge Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:37am

I personally believe it causes confusion as the wing guys forget sometimes momentarily where they are working. Especially in 4-man mechanics for some of the lesser grade levels where the LJ acts similar to the BJ for punts.

This is our second year doing this mechanic and I could do without it.

Except we do not switch the chains. Essentially the LJ has the responsibilities of the HL and the HL has the responsibilities of the LJ.

HLin NC Sun Aug 21, 2016 02:56pm

Here's a thought. Make the teams switch sidelines after halftime. See how many coaches vote for that?

Why would you switch ballboys in high school football? I understand college because you have ballboys for each team on each sideline, I believe. Most of the ballboys we deal with are young kids, some are coaches kids. No way are they going to go to the other team's sideline.

CT1 Mon Aug 22, 2016 08:04am

Found out in our meeting yesterday that we are now apparently allowed to switch under the following circumstances:

(1) The switch will be announced when the assignment is given out
(2) Both wings will attend the chain crew pre-game
(3) The "stronger" HL will be the LJ for the first half.

ajmc Mon Aug 22, 2016 08:27am

Because it "seems" possible, some people seem bound and determined to milk bulls, and refuse to accept all evidence to the contrary when proves to be just a really dumb idea.

Welpe Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 990071)
(3) The "stronger" HL will be the LJ for the first half.

So what is a definition of "strength" of the HL? The one with more patience for lackadaisical chain crews?

Rich Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:53am

We'll all be doing this (switching sidelines) soon enough. Mark my prediction and come back to it in a few years.

Personally, I'd like to see the two deeps on kickoffs at the 5 or 10 yard line. That way everyone moves FORWARD on a kick.

The current NFHS alignment has someone on the 30 and the ball typically crosses right past that person -- it's hard to officiate when you have to look to your left and to your right simultaneously.

Rich Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 990080)
So what is a definition of "strength" of the HL? The one with more patience for lackadaisical chain crews?

As an R, I prefer the stronger person as the LJ. He's deciding if the LTG has been reached and his spotting the ball and his judgment on getting spots is far more important to the pace of play than the HL. With my current LJ, I wouldn't be surprised if the chains don't come out once all season.

CT1 Mon Aug 22, 2016 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by welpe (Post 990080)
so what is a definition of "strength" of the hl? The one with more patience for <del>lackadaisical chain crews</del> azzhole coaches?

Yep. (FIFY)

HLin NC Mon Aug 22, 2016 02:44pm

Quote:

So what is a definition of "strength" of the HL?
The one who really wants to do it, i.e. me, as opposed to the one who didn't, i.e. the LJ.

:cool:

ajmc Mon Aug 22, 2016 04:21pm

Never thought I'd see an actual example of the question most mothers ask their sons, "If so & so jumped off a bridge, does that mean you have to" This is a practice, no matter who has decided to "try it" that is at best a stupid idea to try and justify some solution in search of a problem.

KWH Mon Sep 05, 2016 08:08pm

Swapping the H and the L is a freaking joke
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 989390)
...If I remember correctly, this is coming from the NFHS, and not a state decision.

I can attest for a fact this is NOT coming from the NFHS.
This is coming from Kentucky where someone saw it on TV and conjured up the notion that we needs it too.

This is a big waste of time and has less than little or no chance of becoming an NFHS mechanic.

If it is so damned important to some people that each coach see the Head Linesman for half a game, then,
have the teams swap sidelines at half time.:eek:

OKREF Mon Sep 05, 2016 09:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 990085)
We'll all be doing this (switching sidelines) soon enough. Mark my prediction and come back to it in a few years.

Personally, I'd like to see the two deeps on kickoffs at the 5 or 10 yard line. That way everyone moves FORWARD on a kick.

The current NFHS alignment has someone on the 30 and the ball typically crosses right past that person -- it's hard to officiate when you have to look to your left and to your right simultaneously.

Our state has written a mechanics manual in conjunction with NASO and published by referee magazine, and both wings are on the 15 yd line, with umpire on R 50 and BJ on K 40.

JRutledge Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:02pm

KHW,

Since I am a fool, you can kiss all my state final rings (Counting 5 times BTW) ;)

Peace


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