Various Q's

[mvp2jeter]

I'm new to this refereeing thing, but I love football so I'm hooked. I'm refereeing 5th graders, using NFHS Rules. Let me apologize in advance if this Forum isn't intended for the lower levels, but I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

On the 2nd-half kick-off, K onside kicks and it becomes dead short of the receiving line, whereupon it's recovered by K (the fact that R didn't make a play on the ball is just short of miraculous since the ball died within a foot of the receiving line). After a short conference just to make sure that the ball hadn't reached the receiving line, I awarded the ball to R at the spot it was illegally touched by K. K's coach thought he should get a re-kick. I told him that "there's no re-kick unless the receiving team wants a re-kick" (with a 5 yard penalty against K from the previous kicking line).

My questions are:

1) Was I correct in awarding the ball to R at the spot of recovery? My fear is, I was relying on the kick-out-of-bounds rule instead of an actual basis on an illegal touch.

2) On an illegal touch, could R elect to have a re-kick? Are there other options as in a kick out-of-bounds?

3) Do I understand the following correctly?
On a kick-out-of-bounds, R gets three choices:
a) R's ball at the 35;
b) R's ball at the out-of-bounds spot;
c) K re-kicks after 5 yard penalty from kick line.

Thanks for your help. This Forum is great!

Eric

[keystoneref]

The awarding of the ball at the spot of 1st touching was correct, however your terminology was incorrect.

You awarded R the ball at the "spot of first touching" (bean bag, no flag). There was not a penalty on this play, therefore there can be no re kick, even if R wishes a re- kick. Remember once a free kick travels 10 yards and grounds it is a free ball, or is touched by R it is a free ball. The fact that K touched the grounded ball before it traveled 10 yards is not a penalty, it is the spot of first touching.

Now to your questions:

Question 1: You were correct in awarding the ball to R at the spot of 1st touching, again not illegal touching

Question 2: This is the spot of 1st touching, R cannot request a re-kick since there wasn't a penalty to give them a choice of options, (bean bag-no flag)

Question 3: The options for a free kick out of bounds untouched by R, are as follows:

a) R may take the ball 25 yards in advance of the previous spot (not necessarily at the 35 yard line)

b) R's ball at the inbounds spot

c) K rekicks after a 5 yd penalty from the previous spot.

I hope this helps, welcome to the ranks, have fun and enjoy.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by keystoneref
Question 3: The options for a free kick out of bounds untouched by R, are as follows:

a) R may take the ball 25 yards in advance of the previous spot (not necessarily at the 35 yard line)

b) R's ball at the inbounds spot

c) K rekicks after a 5 yd penalty from the previous spot.

I hope this helps, welcome to the ranks, have fun and enjoy.

What's really fun is when a kick after a safety goes OOB! Kicking coach always wants to know why R is gettign the ball at K's 45!!

[Warrenkicker]

How about this one. A dead-ball personal foul on a successful try and then an unsportsmanlike on coach. Kickoff moved up 30 yards to A-30. Kickoff then goes OOB inside the 10. Officials use the thought that kickoff OOB is placed at A-35. So ball was placed 5 yards further up-field than where it was kicked. ALWAYS remember 25 yards from previous spot.

In this example I would say that the ball should have been placed at A-15. This way the penalty didn't take the ball more than half-the-distance to the goal. I don't think there is anything in the book that really justifies this but what if the kickoff was at A-25 or closer. Then you can't put the ball in play 25 yards from previous spot.

Does anyone agree with this or would you just remove the option to place the ball 25 yards from previous spot if it were kicked from A-25?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
Does anyone agree with this or would you just remove the option to place the ball 25 yards from previous spot if it were kicked from A-25?

No, I don't agree with this. We've discussed this before on this forum. The penalty is against K, not R, so the ball isn't being moved toward the end zone. Marking the ball 25 yards from the kick is NOT a penalty, so the "half the distance" principle doesn't apply. It's simply an option that R has.

I also believe that we agreed that if the kick is at the R25 or closer, then the 25 yard option does not apply.

[Warrenkicker]

I can go along with that as I knew there was nothing I could quote to justify half-the-distance. However it does really change the mentality of the kicking team. They would try to kick it right into the corner and really have no down-side to kicking it OOB because they will probably just get to kick it again.

Probably never have to do it but just another little piece of info to shove into my brain to pull out in 20 years when I need it.