Rule 5-1-1: Bizarre state rule interpretation?
 

I'm curious what rules interpretations are being given for rule 5-1-1 in states other than here in Oregon.

The chairman of the NFHS rules committee is Brad Garrett from Oregon. He as well as the state rules interpreter here are telling us that if ANY down is played with the wrong down on the box (even if all officials agree on the correct down), the down MUST be re-played. No exceptions.

The new 2015 Redding guide interprets this rule the same as always. If we notice the box is wrong, we just change it and move on. Our state is saying no. Re-play the down.

There are many of us here that feel there is absolutely no language in the rule as written to support doing this. if you call back a touchdown because the box had 3 instead of 2, a coach is going to want to know by what authority you base your decision on. As written, this rule has none in the opinion of many here in our association.

So tell me. What are other state rules interpreters telling you all about this rule?

Thanks,

WC

Not this.


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Rich, which state?

Wisconsin. The rule is explained well enough by the rule and case plays and NFHS interps. The down box has nothing to do with the rule. It's just an administrative tool....no different in practice than if the scoreboard has the wrong down.


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I agree 100% with you, but our problem is that we have this bizarre interpretation being pushed at us in spite of the fact that nowhere in the rule, the NFHS interpretations, or the case book does it say to replay a down because the number on the down box was wrong.

Any other states care to chime in on what you're being told?

Typical of many NFHS rule changes, the new is creating more confusion than clarity.

I do so love it when the Fed fixes something.:rolleyes:

Would appreciate it if I could get the states that you're from and what your state rules interpreters are saying about this one issue: A down played with the wrong number on the box. Also, even if we're trying to get the box changed by signaling the HL, if it looks like the snap is eminent we are supposed to shut it down if we think it won't be changed in time. Kill the clock even though we all know the box needs to be changed. Needless to say a large number of us think these ideas are silly, and not supported by th rules, NFHS interpretations or case plays.

They are mixing problems. Their "fix" is for crews who have genuinely lost or gained a down and then realize it, somehow.

The over-eager/inattentive down box operator can be easily corrected and should not be categorized in the same problem.

So they want to hold the game hostage to an assistant who's probably a HS kid scrounged up minutes earlier to hold the down stake?

At the varsity level this most probably isn't the case. Those people are generally regulars and are quite good at what they do, at least in my area.

But yours is a good point -- at the subvarsity levels, the box person is usually a kid or a volunteer parent roped in at the last minute.

I'm not holding up a play to fix a down box. No chance. We'll get it after the play.

I take the opposite view, Rich. We're not playing a down when the box is wrong. It's too easy to take ten seconds (or less) to fix it right then & there.

We disagree then.

No reason to disturb the rhythm of the game, stop the play clock, have the down box changed, and then reset all of it for something that can be fixed after the fact, UNLESS it matters at the time (box says 3rd down, it's 4th down, team doesn't send its punt team out, etc.).

Would you stop the game to correct the electronic game clock if you noticed it was incorrect and the snap was eminent or let play continue and correct it afterward? If yes, why is the down box different?

Still interested in what your state rules interpreters are telling you in your states

Because it is easily correctable after a subsequent play. The game clock isn't.

I've done plenty of games where the down was incorrect for a play here or play there up top when the clock / SB operator spilled is 7-up or dropped his hot dog up in the booth or is trying to do double duty with stats or ?? and we don't shut everything down for that either. How many times have you seen 2nd and 10 on the board and its really 2nd and 4? Do you kill it for that correction too? Not a chance.

We're talking about what is typically a one or two time occurrence, at most, in a game. Typically a lower level game, to boot. And you can almost guarantee whatever team is on offense is going to go bonkers when you're shutting everything down to fix a down marker after you just announced and visualized it at mid-field for both teams, when that staff thinks they may have the defense tired out and on their heels. Just my 2 cents, but why borrow trouble here?

Agree with this

Is it really necessary to reset the play clock? You can't just hold it? I could understand resetting if players said they were confused about the down, but not otherwise. Actually I can't see stopping play at all unless they're confused, but stopping & resetting would be worse than merely stopping.

Yes. Anytime the officials shut things down to deal with something, it is a timeout.

If I stop it, it's reset to 25 seconds. There's no provision that allows me to resume it. It's one big reason I'm loathe to stop it, ESPECIALLY if the game clock is running.

http://ohsaafb.com/files/2015/08/201...ifications.pdf



Page 38, *5.1.1 SITUATION A:
What procedure is used to correct an
error if it is discovered: (a) a fifth
down has been run; or (b) A has not
been given its allotted four downs?
RULING: In both cases, the number
of the next down can be corrected by
the referee until prior to the ball
becoming live after a new series of
downs is awarded. In (a), play will
revert to where it was before the fifth
down was run if it was determined
before prior to the ball becoming live
after a new series of downs was
awarded. In (b), the referee can
declare the proper next down provided
prior to the ball becoming live after
a new series of downs has not been
awarded. …

So it couldn't even be done informally, like, "Oops, hold it a sec, flip the down box...OK, carry on."? You know, like the way some other things are administered where the rule book might say one thing but...?

I could understand if team A's captain said, "Oh, it's that down. Sir, we need another huddle." And then you reset. Or if they'd started their man in motion, or similar cause of your messing up their timing. But if they don't, who would even notice the play clock?

Imminent.