Of Captains and Coin Tosses
 

You guys handle the toss 20 min before game time? Where do you do it, and what is the reason for this?

I'm in Wisconsin and we do the same - right after we meet the coaches.

Why not?


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Other than "Why not" is there a specific mindset or reason for doing it at that point in time that you know of?

I just see no issue with the traditional time for doing it.

Teams tend to go in here after the toss. Anthem and announcing the teams tend to take us right to our start time and we're always on time with the kickoff.

Could just be one of those "we always did it that way" things.

Ohio's list is amazing. I don't need a BJ, for example, running up EVERY time to tell me we're not extending a quarter. There are a few others that provoke a mild eye roll. Guess I'm just a pretender. Good list to discuss with the crew, though.


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Yah..I had the same reaction to a couple of things. But whatever works for them.

The reason is simple...because the coaches wanted to know whether they are kicking or receiving earlier. If they could convince Columbus to hold the coin toss on Monday, they would.

Strange, virtually 99.9% of the coaches we have ever talked to here all say "Nah, let the kids do it" when offered the option for the early toss.

The kids do it, on the field, at about 6:35PM - 6:40PM for the 7PM kickoff. No different than if we did it just before kickoff...except for the timing.

In Texas it was up to the coaches and nearly to a one they wanted the early toss before kickoff. We'd do it off the field between the captains and then do the mock toss before kickoff (have to keep the tradition you know).

Here in my area in CA it is always a live toss just before kickoff.

Captains
 

Sometimes Rules can be annoying, but you might want to consider;

NFHS 2-32-5: A captain of a team is a player designated to represent his team during:

a. The pregame and overtime coin toss (limit of 4 captains in game uniform).

b. Penalty decisions following fouls.

c. Ball placement on a try, Kick-off, after a safety, after a Fair Catch or awarded FC, after a touchback and to start an overtime.
visiti
NFHS 3-2-1 through 4; Defines the Coin-Toss procedure, identifying the captains as the designated team spokespersons and allows for the procedure to be conducted either on the field or as "otherwise specified by individual State associations".

What does this have to do with this thread?

We do the toss with the captains, as do most everyone else....but I already know what the coaches want from our pregame meeting.

Oh, and we get penalty decisions from the coaches. Nothing anyone says here will change that, either.

On this board, as well as other boards, there has been considerable suggestions that decisions for both/either issues be handled EXCLUSIVELY between coaches and officials, bypassing and/or ignoring captains.

Sometimes it can be a worthwhile effort to refresh what the rules ACTUALLY suggest.

With a minimum of effort and common sense, it's entirely doable to inconspicuously involve both coaches AND captains in decisions, so you get BOTH the right decision without ignoring an/or disrespecting the captain.

But if, "NOTHING anyone says here will change that" then there may not be much point in listening, to anything.

I split this off from the original thread. Feel free to continue arguing about captains here.

I've been a white hat for over 30 years and this is what we do:

1) Walk on to the field 30 minutes before the game, meet the coaches and walk the field
2) Coin flip at mid-field with the captains--coaches appear to want this done early
3) No mock flip--coaches say they have better things to do right before the game and I personally think it is a waste of time

If there is something special going on we are always adaptable.

In Oregon our mechanic is to meet for the coin toss 3 minutes prior to kick-off. As far as I know the entire state does this without exception. I actually wish we would do it earlier. We frequently get delayed by late or long national anthems, late player introductions, or just plain disorganization of the home announcer.

IMO earlier is better.

I prefer to do it on the field at the prescribed time as it is written, but I've seen it handled prior to teams taking the field. I've even heard of an instance where the coaches met on a Thursday prior to a Friday night game, had their own coin toss and simply agreed to go with their choices no matter what happened in the actual coin toss if the referee didn't agree to go with their predetermined choices. I don't know if the story is true or if so what actually happened in the game, but I could see things going wrong with that arrangement.

That said, to what extent do you think the reason coaches want to be involved and have it done earlier is to prevent captains from making the wrong choice vs. wanting to know earlier to game plan for being on offense or defense first?

I ask because one of the funniest things I've seen in during a coin toss was the two visiting captains came to midfield both carrying 3x5 index cards. One of cards had Win written and underlined across the top of one side, then below that it read 1. Say "Defer" 2. Wait for other team's choice 2. Say "Defend South" or say "receive" if they pick a side. On the back side, it had Lose written and underlined with 1. If home defers, you say "Receive" 2. If home says they'll take the ball, you say "defend south". The other captain had had heads written on one side and tails written on the other and said pick a side on the bottom of each side. I knew this had to be an inside joke with the captains and coaches and possibly a sign that a captain had messed up his choice during a prior game. We all shared a good laugh at that one after the game.

We don't let kids make the wrong choice. Period.

When a captain defers their choice, I turn to the other team and say "Receive" and don't even wait for the answer before turning back to the team that deferred to see which goal they wish to defend. (I already know what the teams want anyway, cause I collect that from the coaches well before the coin toss. In 20+ years I've never had a team choose anything other than receive after the other team defers. If they did, I'd know already, cause the coach would've told me so.)

Likewise, on penalties, our wing gets the choice from the coach and I'll let the captain know what that choice is and what we're doing.

Nobody wins when we let 16 and 17 year olds make the wrong choice on the field. The kid doesn't, the team doesn't, we don't.

Rich, I don't want to jump into the philosophical debate of how much officials should insert themselves into the process, but I think we can agree that not every official takes as hard a stance as you do on this and can also agree that captains come out and haven't been coached on how to handle the toss.

Any coach that has been burned by that situation has a clear motivation for wanting to do the toss early and away from the field so he can directly make the choice. I'm just curious as to if we as a body believe that is the motivation or is it to get a jump on planning offense vs. defense???

For me I think it's wanting to get a jump on offense/defense.

Also, I'm afraid we'd kickoff at 7:05PM instead of 7PM if we tried holding it 3 minutes before the kickoff. HS games are nowhere near as organized as college games. I'm thrilled we do it early. We know what side of the field we're going to and we head there for the anthem / introductions and we know whose football we need for the kickoff, etc.

Agree 100%.

Nobody is suggesting you SHOULD ever " let kids make the wrong choice". The question is, "What is the best way to make sure that doesn't happen". Blowing the Captain off, ignoring him and dealing only with the Coach, will certainly avoid problems, BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY WAY, or arguably the "best" way.

Knowing BOTH coach's preference BEFORE the KO, can avoid a lot of potential problems in dealing with a Captain's answers. Should an answer "seem" wrong, suggesting, "Excuse me, I may not have explained your options clear enough, allow me to rephrase ( while turning the Captain to face his Coach).

On penalties; explaining the options to the Captain within EARSHOT of his Coach and allowing him to make eye contact with his Coach before deciding (on those situations beyond a simply, and obvious, choice.

We're the adults, and should be able to figure out how to accomplish both paying the respect the Captain HAS EARNED while avoiding any unnecessary misunderstanding mistakes regarding choice decisions. It can also go a long way in gaining the Captain's respect, which may prove useful should unanticipated problems develop during the contest.