Block/Charge/No Call? (Video)

[deleted]

BadNewsRef wrote
30 seconds left in the game and the offending team is up 70-61, it's a no-brainer for me. What good is a reminder at this point?

Seriously. You warn early in the game for little stuff. This is not little.

Adam

BadNewsRef wrote
30 seconds left in the game and the offending team is up 70-61, it's a no-brainer for me. What good is a reminder at this point?

There are a lot of games where a taunt like that leads to a fight if it's not addressed properly.

And this play blows right through any possible warnings I may have given. Straight tea, no chaser.

Raymond

Ref_in_Alberta wrote
...
3rd play - End of a close game and an exciting play where everyone is amped up. I'm probably not going to T this unless there have been issues prior to this time in the game. I'd say something to the player for sure about sportsmanship but I'm unlikely to T the player for the emotional reaction to a high intensity play.

There is a difference between emotional and taunting. Emotional is running back up court pounding your chest or flexing your biceps. This is standing over a prone player, then bending down to his face to embarrass him further.

Adam

BadNewsRef wrote
There is a difference between emotional and taunting. Emotional is running back up court pounding your chest or flexing your biceps. This is standing over a prone player, then bending down to his face to embarrass him further.

yep, let him learn to express his emotions properly. I'm sick and tired of people using "emotional game" as an excuse for childish behavior.

crosscountry55

I think this discussion isn't half as animated if the C isn't completely clueless about his positioning. I just want to reach into the screen and smack him when I watch the video.

Even if he were the T in a 2-p crew he's still way too high and disengaged.

And I'm guessing this was a playoff crew?

Oy vey.

[deleted]

crosscountry55 wrote
I think this discussion isn't half as animated if the C isn't completely clueless about his positioning. I just want to reach into the screen and smack him when I watch the video.

Even if he were the T in a 2-p crew he's still way too high and disengaged.

And I'm guessing this was a playoff crew?

Oy vey.

My guess is a missed rotation.

JeffM

BadNewsRef wrote
30 seconds left in the game and the offending team is up 70-61, it's a no-brainer for me. What good is a reminder at this point?

I think the score 70-61 at the end of the clip is incorrect, but I don't know. The tv scorekeeper was having trouble keeping up.

The sequence starts 64-61. The first basket should make it 66-61. Calling a PC keeps the score 66-61. Making both free throws of a technical foul would make it a one possession game.

I agree that a 70-61 score would make for a teachable moment. Perhaps the home scorekeeper liked the dunk so much that he counted it twice.
🙂
(I think the defender was leaning backwards, but everyone who visits this board know that a defender is allowed to absorb contact and also move backward and maintain LGP. Almost everyone else thinks that leaning backwards negates a defender's ability to draw a charge.)

Welpe

acgod24 wrote
Thoughts??

The old C needs to quit worrying about the ball. Especially after a monster slam like this and his partner at the table.

Adam

Welpe wrote
The old C needs to quit worrying about the ball. Especially after a monster slam like this and his partner at the table.

Yeah, that was as hard to watch as the missed taunting technical.

VrefA

Did anyone notice the clock on the video? Maybe it's just the TV's version of the electronic scoreboard, but it appears the foul was called at :32. The clock then runs down to :24. While the foul is being reported the clock is reset to :34? 😕

EDIT: Not that this is the most important thing going on in the play. Just interesting to note

YooperRef

1-Initial thought was a a no call. Hard to tell how much contact occured from the video angle. After repeated viewings it might be a block.

2-PC + T for taunting.

SC Official

I'm much more concerned with the uncalled taunting T than I am with any possibility of missed block/charge plays. The former would get you taken off tournament assignments in my area without question. The latter, by far less likely.

I cannot believe anyone would condone swallowing the whistle on that taunt. You let that go uncalled, and you open the door for all hell to break loose. Who cares what the coach would think? Part of our JOB is to enforce sportsmanship. I wouldn't care if that dunk tied the national championship game. Not a chance I ignore that taunt if I see it and not a chance any supervisor of mine would be happy if I did ignore it.

jpgc99

Adam wrote
Yeah, that was as hard to watch as the missed taunting technical.

The C has his eyes glued to the ball during the entire video. While I agree with an earlier post that his poor position likely involved a missed rotation, the reason for the missed rotation is ball watching.

Watch his head... He follows the ball the entire clip. This causes him to be terribly out of position to begin and also causes him to miss a very easy and necessary T at the end. At first I thought he saw the taunt and that's why he came sprinting in from half court, but now I'm thinking he just really wanted to get the ball back. He doesn't go to the players and doesn't appear to say anything to diffuse the situation, so it seems he just wanted to hustle in and get the ball.

jpgc99

One more point... The taunt is definitely the worst miss in the clip and should have been seen by both the L and the C. I explained why I think the C missed it, but the L really should har been the first to pick it up. He has a foul, successful dunk, and players on the floor. In the context of the game situation he HAS to take those players all the way to the floor. If he would have done this he would have seen the setup for the taunt and should have stayed even longer to let the entire play finish. Instead he races out to report the foul and leaves the players alone with no eyes on them.

Somebody has to get that taunt, and it was missed badly by both the C and T primarily because of positioning and mechanics.

APG

The slot and the lead should have been racing to see who could get the T first.

[deleted]

The taunting was already over by the time the C was trying to corral the ball. He missed the T by not being at the FTLE and watching the players, not chasing the ball. Lead is most culpable here IMO.

mutantducky

If there was a taunt, and I'm not sure that there was(yes it does look it was) then it should have been the lead. That's tough because you are going for the foul motions, but in that situation I'd want the calling ref to see the outcome and wait around a bit more. The lead had the best angle to see if there was a taunt. I can't fault the center ref for not calling it.

Raymond

mutantducky wrote
If there was a taunt, and I'm not sure that there was(yes it does look it was) then it should have been the lead. That's tough because you are going for the foul motions, but in that situation I'd want the calling ref to see the outcome and wait around a bit more. The lead had the best angle to see if there was a taunt. I can't fault the center ref for not calling it.

I don't know what you mean by the bolded part, but when I have a foul and any amount of players on the floor as a result, I do not leave the scene of the crime until one of my partners comes in. I stand there with a raised fist observing the subsequent action.

When I am the closest non-calling official, I sprint in and let my partner know I have it and he can go report.

bob jenkins

VrefA wrote
Did anyone notice the clock on the video? Maybe it's just the TV's version of the electronic scoreboard, but it appears the foul was called at :32. The clock then runs down to :24. While the foul is being reported the clock is reset to :34? 😕

EDIT: Not that this is the most important thing going on in the play. Just interesting to note

Lots of times the "clock" at the bottom of the screen isn't sync'd to the game clocks. That's why the monitor reviews need to see a sync'd clock or the stadium clocks, not the TV clock.

If you watch closely, you can see some sort of anomaly with the TV clock on many games.

[deleted]

mutantducky wrote
If there was a taunt, and I'm not sure that there was

What the hell do you think the player was doing then?

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