History Question

dabard

Were free throws ever granted in high school for player or team control fouls?

Nevadaref

Yes, buy the DVD of Hoosiers and watch the video of the actual game upon which the movie is based.

crosscountry55

dabard wrote
Were free throws ever granted in high school for player or team control fouls?

There was a time before a 2011-ish NFHS rule change in which team control did not include the throw-in. Thus the "offense" could commit a foul during a throw-in which resulted in bonus free throws for the other team. This is no longer the case.

The concept of team control during a throw-in had already been an NCAA rule for quite some time. That it was not an NFHS rule was an oddity, and thankfully it was changed.

For any history before 1997 when I started, you'll have to consult someone older and wiser. 😉

so cal lurker

Back when I played (the 80s) there was no such thing as a team control foul. A foul by an offensive player other than the one with the ball was simply a common foul - so one-and-one could apply. It was also true then that a charge by the shooter after releasing the ball was not considered player control. So it could be a good basket followed by one-and-one at the other end.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am not about to climb up into the attic to look up exact dates, but in "The Ancient Days" when I played H.S. basketball in the late 1960's and when I started officiating in 1971 the term "team control foul" was not in the boys'/girls' and men's college rules book (NBCUSC), but was in the women's college rules book (NAGWS). But when the team in control of the ball committed a common foul its opponents received the ball for a throw-in rather than shoot a FT.

Some time in the very late 1970s or early 1980s for NFHS and NCAA Men's and early to mid-1980s for NCAA Womens' the rules changed and if a team in control of the ball committed a common foul excluding a PCF, its opponent would shoot FTs if it was in the bonus.

Then (I do not remember if it was before the turn of the century or after the turn of the century, but I am leaning toward after the turn of the century: see a previous post which referenced 2010) the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules added the term "team control foul" (and it included PCFs) and changed the rule back and penalty back to "The Ancient Days".

So ends today's history lesson.

MTD, Sr.

Jesse James

Before 1961 or 1962 (not certain which), a player control foul did result in free throw(s) for the offended team.

Rob1968

Jesse James wrote
Before 1961 or 1962 (not certain which), a player control foul did result in free throw(s) for the offended team.

NFHS BASKETBALL HANDBOOK notes a rules change in 1961: ". . . no free throw for a player-control foul . . ."
1964 ". . . definition provided for a player-control foul . . ."
1979 " . . .Player-control foul limited to the player holding or dribbling the ball . . ."
1983 " . . .An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try and has not returned to the floor; player control extended to include the airborne shooter . . ."
1988 " . . .airborne shooter is in act of shooting . . ."
2005 " . . . no free throws awarded for a team-control foul when offended team is in the bonus . . ."

I find the history of rules changes very interesting, as the game evolves. So often, one change leads to a progression of refinements and further clarifications.

BillyMac

Rob1968 wrote
I find the history of rules changes very interesting, as the game evolves. So often, one change leads to a progression of refinements and further clarifications.

Which, in some cases, makes it difficult for veteran officials. "Twenty seconds, or thirty seconds, for an injury "timeout"?"

Also perpetuates "myths" for veteran coaches, and older fans. "Closely guarded five second violation? But he made a move to the basket?"

Learning rules, and dealing with rule changes that improve the game, are why we get paid the big bucks.

"The only difference between a rut, and a grave, is their dimensions." (Ellen Glasgow, American novelist)

paulsonj72

Here is a link to the playing rules history of college basketball

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2015/Rules.pdf.

And for a long time the NCAA and the National Federation used the same rule set(with minor changes). IIRC this ended in the late 1970's. For me the most interesting rule was the origin of the bonus or 1-and-1 free throw in 1952. In that case you only got the 2nd free throw if you MISSED the 1st. Coaches (both high school and college) hated that rule and it lasted only 2 years.

so cal lurker

paulsonj72 wrote
Here is a link to the playing rules history of college basketball

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2015/Rules.pdf.

And for a long time the NCAA and the National Federation used the same rule set(with minor changes). IIRC this ended in the late 1970's. For me the most interesting rule was the origin of the bonus or 1-and-1 free throw in 1952. In that case you only got the 2nd free throw if you MISSED the 1st. Coaches (both high school and college) hated that rule and it lasted only 2 years.

Interesting. I didn't know that - I wonder if it was the parent of the old NBA2 to make 1 and 3 to make 2 bonus awards.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

paulsonj72 wrote
Here is a link to the playing rules history of college basketball

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2015/Rules.pdf.

And for a long time the NCAA and the National Federation used the same rule set(with minor changes). IIRC this ended in the late 1970's. For me the most interesting rule was the origin of the bonus or 1-and-1 free throw in 1952. In that case you only got the 2nd free throw if you MISSED the 1st. Coaches (both high school and college) hated that rule and it lasted only 2 years.

so cal lurker wrote
Interesting. I didn't know that - I wonder if it was the parent of the old NBA2 to make 1 and 3 to make 2 bonus awards.

Prior to splitting into the NFHS Basketball and NCAA Men's Basketball Rules Committees in the late 1970s, the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (NBCUSC) was the governing body for boys'/girl's high school and men's college basketball in the United States and Canada.

Until the early 1980s the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports (NAGWS) was the governing body for women's college basketball until the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Committee.

When the NFHS and NCAA Men's Committees were formed all both committees agreed that NBCUSC Casebook Plays would be valid unless a rule change was made to change an existing casebook play.

MTD, Sr.