Question from Fanboy site

bainsey

I frequently read our state's fanboy site, typically to answer and clarify rules questions. (Every little bit of understanding helps.) Of course, there's the usual ref-bashing, but there's a recent exception from a fan who abhors idiotic behavior, and yet wonders even if less idiotic behavior can have an effect on our work. His initial question:

My question is does the "feedback" potentially do more harm than good if it's done in a civil way and more often than not is a matter of asking for fairness or equality in calls ???

My initial response was that I couldn't see how civility could do more harm than good. He offered an example from a game where he wasn't an biased fan (not a supporter of either team), and this clarification...

I'm just wondering how much of the poor officiating may be due to conscious or subconscious decisions on the ref's part based on crowd/fan behavior ...

What he considers to be "poor" officiating is certainly speculation. That said, we kick stuff sometimes, and fan critiques of officiating are often done in superlatives -- either great or poor (seldom fair or mediocre). If it isn't the fans (and I think we all agree that it's not), what is it? Bad positioning/mechanics? Being straightlined? Rules misapplications? What else?

Raymond

I see no tangible question here to be answered, or even worth pondering.

Welpe

Bad mechanics (getting straight lined falls into this) are the root of many poor calls.

The rest of it is a smattering of factors. Some officials just don't have good judgment, some do let the crowd get to them. As long as we keep getting officials from the human population, this will continue to happen.

Adam

Morons can be distracting sometimes.

bainsey

Adam wrote
Morons can be distracting sometimes.

Forget about the morons and howler monkeys, though. What about the ones yelling something backed with a little rules knowledge?

Adam

bainsey wrote
Forget about the morons and howler monkeys, though. What about the ones yelling something backed with a little rules knowledge?

My overall thoughts from your OP:
1. Distractions are bad. Most of us, as we progress, develop selective hearing and don't hear the fans 99% of the time. When we hear the fans, it's distracting. Any fan who thinks he's going to be able to impact the officiating in a positive way is dilluding himself. The only effect he will have is as a distraction. It could fluster younger officials, but that's not what this guy is getting at.

2. Fans who spout rule terminology are wasting their time. Either the official already knows the rules and their assistance is not required, or the official doesn't know the rules and their help isn't going to actually, well, help.

3. Anyone who is trying to be nice and civilized in order to have more influence on someone is kind of missing the point, IMO.

just another ref

bainsey wrote
Forget about the morons and howler monkeys, though. What about the ones yelling something backed with a little rules knowledge?

Fans yelling things which may be legitimate complaints are not that uncommon. But it still comes down to judgment, and more importantly, it's too easy to criticize the job someone else is doing at anything, when there's no potential fallout if you criticism is wrong.

Bottom line: Officials, make sure nobody in the gym has more rules knowledge than you.

j51969

just another ref wrote
Fans yelling things which may be legitimate complaints are not that uncommon. But it still comes down to judgment, and more importantly, it's too easy to criticize the job someone else is doing at anything, when there's no potential fallout if you criticism is wrong.QUOTE]

Such a true statement that can be applied to many different situations!

Maineac

bainsey wrote
Forget about the morons and howler monkeys, though. What about the ones yelling something backed with a little rules knowledge?

You lost me at "yelling something." I consider them to be not much different than the first two groups you mentioned. It's all "white noise" to me. It's certainly not going to help at all.

Raymond

I just tune fans out. I listen when I want to for entertainment purposes.

If I'm spending any extra attention to the fans it's because somebody very good looking is sitting in that area. Seriously.

Coach Bill

Adam wrote
My overall thoughts from your OP:

2. Fans who spout rule terminology are wasting their time. Either the official already knows the rules and their assistance is not required, or the official doesn't know the rules and their help isn't going to actually, well, help.

I had an impact as a fan one time at a varsity high school game a few years ago. The officials were about to award 1-and-1 to a team on a "loose-ball foul" committed by the team last in possession of the ball.

I spouted that they still had team control. The officials conferred and I got a thumbs-up from one of them. A proud moment for me. lol. Most of the time, my "advice" is ignored.

TimTaylor

BadNewsRef wrote
I just tune fans out. I listen when I want to for entertainment purposes.

If I'm spending any extra attention to the fans it's because somebody very good looking is sitting in that area. Seriously.

My sentiments exactly!

Fans?, What fans?

I completely ignore them unless/until they do something to interfere with the game, then I let the gym supervisor or security deal with it.

jTheUmp

Adam wrote
2. Fans who spout rule terminology are wasting their time. Either the official already knows the rules and their assistance is not required, or the official doesn't know the rules and their help isn't going to actually, well, help.

I might be in the minority on this, but when I was a newbie and hadn't yet developed me keen ability to ignore fans, occasionally a "fan spouting rule terminology" would give me a "hey, maybe I have the rule wrong" reaction. I wouldn't let it change my actions in the current game, of course, but it would give me cause to dig into the rule book later in the evening. And occasionally I'd learn something, although usually I'd learn that the fan was an idiot.

An example: in my first year, I had one game where I called 4 or 5 violations for a ball hitting the top of the backboard (not going over, just hitting the top). After the 3rd one, I overheard a fan comment about "that's wrong, it's a dead ball only when it hits a backboard support"... In my sojurn into the rules later that evening, I found out that the fan was partially right, and I was wrong.

egj13

I read the OP in the sense that the guy is asking if we kick calls because we are peeved at the "abuse" we are taking? Asking if we hold grudges?

I can say for myself that I have several gyms that I absolutely abhor going too...fans that say things that would make most of you blush. But at the same time I go in with a fresh slate each game. I was at the worst of them the other night and the V coach said something about getting homered...I said "coach, if you had any idea the number of times I have been police escorted out of this gym you would know this is the last place you will be homered at..." he chuckled because he probably thought I was joking!

Bottom line is, there are some that probably do hold it against teams but the majority of us just try and call our best game each time.

bainsey

egj13 wrote
I read the OP in the sense that the guy is asking if we kick calls because we are peeved at the "abuse" we are taking? Asking if we hold grudges?

Actually, quite the contrary. The question is whether even the most civil of objections from the stands leads to kicked calls.

Adam

bainsey wrote
Actually, quite the contrary. The question is whether even the most civil of objections from the stands leads to kicked calls.

I took it as asking whether a civil objection from the stands could in fact reduce kicked calls.

And I contend that the only possible in-game impacts of even the most civil objections are either neutral or negative (I don't mean by grudge, I mean because an official is either distracted or flustered.)

just another ref

jTheUmp wrote
..... occasionally a "fan spouting rule terminology" would give me a "hey, maybe I have the rule wrong" reaction. I wouldn't let it change my actions in the current game, of course......

Why not? Anybody can make a mistake. If you realize the mistake in time to correct it, what difference does it make where the information came from.

Example: You're about to shoot free throws, when a voice from the stands yells, "That was a team control foul, you morons!" Oops, he's right. We are morons. White team OOB.