Thoughts on a Look-Back Rule case

agr8zebra

One out, Runners on the corners, pop fly to the pitcher standing on the rubber in the pitching circle. Immediately following the catch runner on 3B jumps off 2 to 3 steps and then moves back to be on 3B.

Any thoughts of calling the Look-Back Rule?

chapmaja

agr8zebra wrote
One out, Runners on the corners, pop fly to the pitcher standing on the rubber in the pitching circle. Immediately following the catch runner on 3B jumps off 2 to 3 steps and then moves back to be on 3B.

Any thoughts of calling the Look-Back Rule?

I think the way the rule is technically written it would be a LBR violation, however I would be hard pressed to call the violation as it is clearly a part of the playing action of the batted ball being caught.

As long as the runner, after she left, and stopped, immediately returned to 3b I'm not calling anything. If she stops, than dances, then I am calling a LBR.

RKBUmp

For purposes of fielding a batted ball the circle has no meaning, the pitcher is no different than any other fielder. Rule supplement 34 E.

chapmaja

RKBUmp wrote
For purposes of fielding a batted ball the circle has no meaning, the pitcher is no different than any other fielder. Rule supplement 34 E.

The only question this brings up is at what point does the fielding of a batter ball end, and does the LBR portion requiring posession of the ball in the circle begin?

I'm not arguing with you, as I think we both would agree this OP is not a LBR violation, the question is when does the prohibition begin?

BretMan

chapmaja wrote
The only question this brings up is at what point does the fielding of a batter ball end, and does the LBR portion requiring posession of the ball in the circle begin?

When the umpire judges it to be so. That's why we get paid the big bucks.

IRISHMAFIA

BretMan wrote
When the umpire judges it to be so. That's why we get paid the big bucks.

^^^ this. Just like the pitcher who fields a ground ball or line drive.

The umpire must judge that the pitcher is no longer acting as a fielder, but is now taking the position of a pitcher.

I would strongly encourage the umpire to be very deliberate in making that determination and giving the runner(s) an extra heartbeat or two to react by returning or advance to the base prior to enforcing the LBR.

AtlUmpSteve

agr8zebra wrote
pitcher standing on the rubber in the pitching circle.

I suspect you mean the item this game calls a pitcher's plate. It might be made of wood (ASA), or any suitable material (NCAA and NFHS), according to the rule books.

Or did she stand on her galoshes? Playing safe softball?

CecilOne

I have always said the LBR is not a "gotcha" rule, just a delay deterrent.
Could have called a runner for it today, but standing still obviously not realizing she was not touching the base.

agr8zebra

When this happened to me, I was working 2-man, I immediately thought about the LBR, but I quickly let it pass because for one I didn't want to have some coach on my bad side for the rest of the game, plus I didn't think the situation violated the intent of the rule.

IRISHMAFIA

agr8zebra wrote
When this happened to me, I was working 2-man, I immediately thought about the LBR, but I quickly let it pass because for one I didn't want to have some coach on my bad side for the rest of the game, plus I didn't think the situation violated the intent of the rule.

What intent would that be 😕

😉

Manny A

AtlUmpSteve wrote
I suspect you mean the item this game calls a pitcher's plate. It might be made of wood (ASA), or any suitable material (NCAA and NFHS), according to the rule books.

And yet, I hear so many softball players and coaches call it a rubber. 😉

agr8zebra

IRISHMAFIA wrote
What intent would that be :confused:😉

The Look Back Rule was established to help speed-up the game by stopping the pitcher and the runner from “toying” with each other when the ball was being returned to the infield after it had been put in play. The rule was not established for the offense or defense to gain an advantage through “trick plays” or by “baiting” the other side into a violation.

jmkupka

That being said (Cecil's and Agr8's comments), my situation this weekend was, me in "C", R1 on 2B, her ready position had her rear foot on the bag.
In order to get a look at F2's signal, R1 leaned forward, bringing her rear foot waaay up off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1.

What say you in that sit?

agr8zebra

I would walk over to the coach at 3rd base and in a voice loud enough for it to be heard by many(not yelling, but not quietly) I would say "Coach, if your girl at 3rd base wants to steal signs from the catch, she needs to be in contact with the bag(2B) or I am going to call her out". Problem solved.

The runner at 2nd isn't violating the intent of the rule but none the less is violating. She just needs to be better at steeling signs.

Dakota

Manny A wrote
And yet, I hear so many softball players and coaches call it a rubber. 😉

They also call the circle the mound. That doesn't make it correct... unless you are saying you always go along with what players and coaches say! 😀

Dakota

IRISHMAFIA wrote
What intent would that be 😕

😉

To create 10,000 complaints a season by coaches! 😀

Dakota

CecilOne wrote
I have always said the LBR is not a "gotcha" rule...

Same for its conjoined twin... the leaving early rule.

MD Longhorn

jmkupka wrote
That being said (Cecil's and Agr8's comments), my situation this weekend was, me in "C", R1 on 2B, her ready position had her rear foot on the bag.
In order to get a look at F2's signal, R1 leaned forward, bringing her rear foot waaay up off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1.

What say you in that sit?

10U? Inform the coach that she can't do that.

Anything else, that's an out. They know better by then.

CecilOne

MD Longhorn wrote
Anything else, that's an out. They know better by then.

"off the bag, then back down. No early lead, no toying with F1."
I disagree, but that's probably obvious.

IRISHMAFIA

IMO, there is no "leading" in softball.