Reset the clock?

BillyMac

Sharpshooternes wrote
On jump ball to start the game, A1 possess the ball with their initial touch and passes to a teammate. At the time of the whistle, the clock shows 7:58. Should a change be made so that the clock is back at 8:00 as the initial touch which should start the clock caused the violation ...

Clock starts with a legal touch.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started
when the tossed ball is legally touched.

Reset to 8:00.

Nevadaref

BillyMac wrote
Clock starts with a legal touch.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started
when the tossed ball is legally touched.

Reset to 8:00.

No, Billy. The touch itself is legal as it is not a punch or a kick.
The fact that the catching of the ball violates the restrictions of the jump ball causes an infraction and a whistle.
Therefore, the clock properly starts on the touch and stops on the whistle for the violation. Leave the clock at 7:58.

This situation is analogous to a throw-in in which the player receiving the pass is standing with a foot on a boundary line. The touch is legal, but the contact with the boundary is not. The game clock should start and then stop.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
No, Billy. The touch itself is legal as it is not a punch or a kick.
The fact that the catching of the ball violates the restrictions of the jump ball causes an infraction and a whistle.
Therefore, the clock properly starts on the touch and stops on the whistle for the violation. Leave the clock at 7:58.

Right, or wrong, we've always (33 years, which, by itself, doesn't make it right) reset the clock when a jumper hits the ball on the way up. It figured that the same applied it one of the jumpers caught the ball instead of tapping it, although I've never actually seen the play.

Nevadaref: Your answer sounds good, but I'd like to hear others' opinions.

Rich

I'd reset the clock if he catches the toss. If he tips it and then catches it, I'd leave the clock where it's stopped.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
... a throw-in in which the player receiving the pass is standing with a foot on a boundary line. The touch is legal, but the contact with the boundary is not. The game clock should start and then stop.

So if the throwin doesn't touch anything except the wall, the clock should start? Or what if it hits a coach? Or a fan? Or an out of bounds official? Why does hitting a player out of bounds make the starting, or not starting, of the clock any different?

7-1-2: The ball is out of bounds:
a. When it touches or is touched by:
1. A player who is out of bounds.
2. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
3. The supports or back of the backboard.
4. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.

5-9-4: If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the
ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by
the thrower.

BillyMac

Rich wrote
If he tips it and then catches it, I'd leave the clock where it's stopped.

Because it's a legal tip.

Sharpshooternes

Nevadaref wrote
No, Billy. The touch itself is legal as it is not a punch or a kick.
The fact that the catching of the ball violates the restrictions of the jump ball causes an infraction and a whistle.
Therefore, the clock properly starts on the touch and stops on the whistle for the violation. Leave the clock at 7:58.

This situation is analogous to a throw-in in which the player receiving the pass is standing with a foot on a boundary line. The touch is legal, but the contact with the boundary is not. The game clock should start and then stop.

Nevada, how is the touch legal? The jumper grabbed the ball with two hands. My understanding is that this is illegal.

Camron Rust

Sharpshooternes wrote
Nevada, how is the touch legal? The jumper grabbed the ball with two hands. My understanding is that this is illegal.

In most cases the player will have touched the ball prior to grasping the ball.

APG

Put me in the camp of resetting it to 8:00

just another ref

I have never seen a jumper "possess the ball with the initial touch." I see that as practically impossible to do on a properly tossed ball.

APG

just another ref wrote
I have never seen a jumper "possess the ball with the initial touch." I see that as practically impossible to do on a properly tossed ball.

I've seen both jumpers initially miss the ball on the first jump...then one of the jumpers catch the ball on the way down.

just another ref

APG wrote
I've seen both jumpers initially miss the ball on the first jump...then one of the jumpers catch the ball on the way down.

I've seen that, too. Often because the toss was too high or was before the jumpers were ready.

Rich

just another ref wrote
I've seen that, too. Often because the toss was too high or was before the jumpers were ready.

No such thing as "too high." That just means they didn't time their jump properly.

just another ref

Rich wrote
No such thing as "too high."

Strictly speaking there isn't, but if it hits the ceiling, it's too high.

Rich

just another ref wrote
Strictly speaking there isn't, but if it hits the ceiling, it's too high.

Obviously, a toss can be (for practical purposes) too high.

just another ref

Rich wrote
Obviously, a toss can be (for practical purposes) too high.

thank you

Camron Rust

APG wrote
Put me in the camp of resetting it to 8:00

While I don't think it is required by rule, I also say why bother. It isn't like it is the last 2 seconds.

Nevadaref

Sharpshooternes wrote
Nevada, how is the touch legal? The jumper grabbed the ball with two hands. My understanding is that this is illegal.

Again, it's not the touching/catching itself that is illegal. It is fact that this action is done by the jumper during a jump ball. So it is not an illegal touch, but rather a jump ball violation. You are confusing a legal touching with the jump ball violation which it causes and thinking that the entire thing is illegal. If a player did this at any other point in the game, it would be just fine.

The touching itself is only illegal if it entails a striking with a fist or a kicking of the ball. I refer you to AP throw-in case plays for discussion of "legally touched."

Nevadaref

Sharpshooternes wrote
Nevada, how is the touch legal? The jumper grabbed the ball with two hands. My understanding is that this is illegal.

PS. Tapping the ball with two hands is legal. So don't judge this on whether the catch is with one hand or two. It doesn't make any difference.
A tap or bat is legal, but a catch causes a violation.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
If a player did this at any other point in the game, it would be just fine.

While the ball was on the rim? Wait? It's not the touching itself that is illegal. It is fact that this action is done by the player while the ball is on the rim. So it is not an illegal touch, but rather a basket interference violation, caused by a legal touch. Or was it a legal touch? The plot thickens.