Sample Play for ASA

BretMan

ASA rules.

3-2 count, R1 on second base. Ball four is in the dirt and rebounds off the catcher, then goes a few feet up the first base line.

The batter-runner heads for first and: A) intentionally, or; B) unintentionally, contacts the ball.

What is the call and what rule number covers it?

BretMan

CecilOne wrote
Dead ball, R1 stays at 2nd unless reached 3rd before BR contact.
Will work on rule cite.

The rule cite is the tricky part...

We have rules for runners hit by batted balls or thrown balls. But I'm not finding anything concrete that covers a batter-runner hit by a deflected pitch/loose ball.

Obviously, if the B/R intentionally kicked the ball she would be out. I threw in the "intentional/unintentional" option just looking for input if "intent" even plays a part in this call.

The conversation this generated at one of our meetings ranged from "it's nothing, live ball, play on", to "it's interference, batter-runner is out (regardless of intent), to "dead ball, place B/R on first base".

Manny A

BretMan wrote
The rule cite is the tricky part...

We have rules for runners hit by batted balls or thrown balls. But I'm not finding anything concrete that covers a batter-runner hit by a deflected pitch/loose ball.

Obviously, if the B/R intentionally kicked the ball she would be out. I threw in the "intentional/unintentional" option just looking for input if "intent" even plays a part in this call.

The conversation this generated at one of our meetings ranged from "it's nothing, live ball, play on", to "it's interference, batter-runner is out (regardless of intent), to "dead ball, place B/R on first base".

I would go with the "Live Ball, Play On" group, unless it was done intentionally.

My rationale is this: A runner is not expected to avoid being contacted by a batted ball that has been deflected by an infielder. So why should we hold him/her to a higher responsibility on a pitched ball that has been deflected by the catcher?

Of course, that argument goes out the window on a dropped-third strike. I never could understand the rationale with that one...

RKBUmp

Closest I can find so far is the last exception in rule 7. But, it is dealing with a return throw to the pitcher. Based on the wording of that rule, I could see where if no runner was advancing prior to the contact and it was not intentional contact with the ball, just kill it return runners to last base and put the B/R on 1st.

CecilOne

Manny A wrote
My rationale is this: A runner is not expected to avoid being contacted by a batted ball that has been deflected by an infielder. So why should we hold him/her to a higher responsibility on a pitched ball that has been deflected by the catcher?
.

I like that reasoning, but it seems to come down to impeding a play or not.

MD Longhorn

If we're going to be consistent with other rulings - generally, if the batter interferes with a potential play, we have an out; but if the batter "interferes" while there is NO potential play, and a play develops because of that "interference", it's just a dead ball - put the runner back.

(B) is nothing.
(A) is - if no play, B/R to first, runner back; if there is a play, B/R out, runner back.

bluejay

My ASA book is from 2011 so perhaps somethng has changed but 8.2.f.6 mentions interference with a dropped third strike which I believe the OP describes. I think most of us know what three things always happen when interference occurs. Dead, out, return.

Andy

bluejay wrote
My ASA book is from 2011 so perhaps somethng has changed but 8.2.f.6 mentions interference with a dropped third strike which I believe the OP describes. I think most of us know what three things always happen when interference occurs. Dead, out, return.

You are correct for a D3K. However, the OP said:

Ball four is in the dirt...

MD Longhorn

bluejay wrote
My ASA book is from 2011 so perhaps somethng has changed but 8.2.f.6 mentions interference with a dropped third strike which I believe the OP describes. I think most of us know what three things always happen when interference occurs. Dead, out, return.

Um ... what?

bluejay

Excuse me. I guess I should read better. Our group recently had a long discussion on the DTK situation and I could not figure out why no one could get it. My bad.

MichaelVA2000

Live ball unless the umpire decides there was interference.

Insane Blue

bluejay wrote
My ASA book is from 2011 so perhaps somethng has changed but 8.2.f.6 mentions interference with a dropped third strike which I believe the OP describes. I think most of us know what three things always happen when interference occurs. Dead, out, return.

Lets say it was a dropped 3rd strike it would only be interference if the kick was intentional. The Batter Runner has a right to run to first on a dropped 3rd strike so they are not doing anything illegal if it is unintentional.

IRISHMAFIA

Insane Blue wrote
Lets say it was a dropped 3rd strike it would only be interference if the kick was intentional. The Batter Runner has a right to run to first on a dropped 3rd strike so they are not doing anything illegal if it is unintentional.

Speaking ASA

No intent is necessary.

tcannizzo

What if F2 intentionally directed the U3K into the feet of the batter?
No response required.:cool:

HugoTafurst

tcannizzo wrote
What if F2 intentionally directed the U3K into the feet of the batter?
No response required.:cool:

Oh, I just noticed the "no response required" not.
So I'll just offer my non-required response which is: 🙄
LOL

CecilOne

I have overruled myself.
If I had to make a ruling, I would apply 8.8.G.1; ball deflected by a defensive player, BR not out, live ball.

Then, if there was a play impeded, INT would apply.

IRISHMAFIA

CecilOne wrote
I have overruled myself.
If I had to make a ruling, I would apply 8.8.G.1; ball deflected by a defensive player, BR not out, live ball.

Then, if there was a play impeded, INT would apply.

8.8: The Runner is Not Out
G. When a runner is off the base
1. Is touched by a ball not securely held by a fielder.

MD Longhorn

IRISHMAFIA wrote
8.8: The Runner is Not Out
G. When a runner is off the base
1. Is touched by a ball not securely held by a fielder.

Agreed.

But Mike (and I think I originally got this notion from you), if the loose ball was at rest (or nearly so), and there was no play going on, and then the new B/R inadvertently contacts the ball such that runners could advance, would you not kill the play? Or did I misinterpret something you said?