Kentucky vs Vandy

Rich

JRutledge wrote
Maybe I did not notice, but where are their shot clocks?

Peace

UK-Vandy Refs Blow Shot Clock Violation Call, Hand Game To Kentucky, Baffle And Confuse A Senile-Sounding Bob Knight

The benches and coaching boxes are on the end lines, too.

dahoopref

Rich wrote
Anyone else think this is possibly a result of Vandy being different with the location of their shot clocks?

Agree. It's a tough look for the C to view the shooter and shot clock from where it is at. I guess you would go by horn in which case, the play was even closer.

Rich

I went to an SEC school for grad school and it baffles me that nobody ever forced Vandy to put things in the proper places.

JRutledge

dahoopref wrote
Agree. It's a tough look for the C to view the shooter and shot clock from where it is at. I guess you would go by horn in which case, the play was even closer.

All officials have and can call a shot clock violation for the record. So this is not just a C call and if anyone hears the shot clock horn they can make this call. I agree the shot clock location does not help if you could get a visual, but we do not make the call based solely on the visual part, but the audio part.

Peace

Rich

JRutledge wrote
All officials have and can call a shot clock violation for the record. So this is not just a C call and if anyone hears the shot clock horn they can make this call. I agree the shot clock location does not help if you could get a visual, but we do not make the call based solely on the visual part, but the audio part.

Peace

How loud is the horn at Vandy? Can the officials hear it well with the crowd noise?

I'm not making excuses for them. Quite frankly, it's insane that this isn't reviewable. The tool is there - let them use it.

JugglingReferee

Red 0 behind the basket. Ball still in hands.

Rich

I just watched it again. Sounds on the telecast like the horn was after the shot left the hand. Could be the distance the sound had to travel, I guess.

Rich

JugglingReferee wrote
Red 0 behind the basket. Ball still in hands.

Watch the Deadspin feed. Listen for the horn.

JRutledge

Rich wrote
How loud is the horn at Vandy? Can the officials hear it well with the crowd noise?

I'm not making excuses for them. Quite frankly, it's insane that this isn't reviewable. The tool is there - let them use it.

You could make that same case in most situations. I know even in small college gyms those horns are not that loud.

I also have no problem with these being not being reviewable because you could do that every single time up the court. Sometimes we need to just officiate and video is not going to solve everything. I do not even see anything that makes me feel this was a slam dunk either way.

Peace

Rich

JRutledge wrote
You could make that same case in most situations. I know even in small college gyms those horns are not that loud.

I also have no problem with these being not being reviewable because you could do that every single time up the court. Sometimes we need to just officiate and video is not going to solve everything. I do not even see anything that makes me feel this was a slam dunk either way.

Peace

How often do we have close shot clock violations in a typical college game? I only work a handful of college games a season, but we have one or two, at most. It's not a bad idea to try to review this as the video is available.

JRutledge

Rich wrote
How often do we have close shot clock violations in a typical college game? I only work a handful of college games a season, but we have one or two, at most. It's not a bad idea to try to review this as the video is available.

If you made the rule changed you would have a request for a review every single possession this was an issue or it was close. Just like you would they go overboard for reviews for elbows now. And all you hear is the media complain about how many times those are reviewed. You really want to add one of the more common situations to be reviewed? Just like there are limits on what is reviewed in football, this is just silly to have reviews for everything like this.

Peace

HawkeyeCubP

JRutledge wrote
I do not even see anything that makes me feel this was a slam dunk either way.

Even after watching the tape? I'd bet my schedule this is graded an IC. And correctly so.

APG

JRutledge wrote
You could make that same case in most situations. I know even in small college gyms those horns are not that loud.

I also have no problem with these being not being reviewable because you could do that every single time up the court. Sometimes we need to just officiate and video is not going to solve everything. I do not even see anything that makes me feel this was a slam dunk either way.

Peace

Under NBA rules, the officials are allowed to review whether or not a shot clock violation has occurred, and this situation doesn't come up too often, so I don't believe it would happen every single time up the court.

JRutledge

APG wrote
Under NBA rules, the officials are allowed to review whether or not a shot clock violation has occurred, and this situation doesn't come up too often, so I don't believe it would happen every single time up the court.

They review a lot more in the NCAA level than they do in the NBA as far as I can tell. Every elbow sitaution or flagrant situation they review them. I think all this would happen more with more official and more conference supervisors and different philsophies out there. The NBA staff is very small in comparison so they are on more on one page. And the NBA can control how their games are broadcast on TV where NCAA will have all kinds of standards. We already have the Pac 12 cannot use HD video courtside. I think that is going to be all over the place if you allow that to be reviewed.

Peace

APG

JRutledge wrote
They review a lot more in the NCAA level than they do in the NBA as far as I can tell. Every elbow sitaution or flagrant situation they review them. I think all this would happen more with more official and more conference supervisors and different philsophies out there. The NBA staff is very small in comparison so they are on more on one page. And the NBA can control how their games are broadcast on TV where NCAA will have all kinds of standards. We already have the Pac 12 cannot use HD video courtside. I think that is going to be all over the place if you allow that to be reviewed.

Peace

I'd say the NBA has more situations that are reviewable...but some of those are only in effect in the final two minutes of regulation and all of OT (OOB calls, when officials call goaltending, block/charge plays involving the RA, whether or not a ball struck the rim meaning the shot clock should be reset). The biggest difference in NCAA replay rules and NBA replay rules is that the NBA reviews some of its plays during mandatory timeouts while NCAA will stop play instantly and review the play as it's tied to its correctable errors timeframe (and on a side note, the NBA's correctable errors procedure means they have a longer time frame to correct an error). The NBA method lends itself to better to the flow of the game.

I just don't think that this situation comes up often enough to where it's be an issue. 90+ percent of tries come easily before or after the expiration of the shot clock and that 10 percent of the other tries wouldn't be enough, IMO, to where it'd be an issue.

JRutledge

All I am saying is you cannot compare every situation to the NBA. And the NBA does not review the kinds of things that the NCAA does as well. They are too much apples and oranges in many situations and this is one of them.

Peace

jritchie

Looks like to me the clock showed "0" but the horn goes off a second later, which would mean to me that since the shot clock doesn't show tenths of a second, it's showing zero, but you still have 0.9 0.8 ...blah blah....until you actually get to 0.0 and have the horn. So even though the big red 0 was on the board i don't think you have a violation until you get the horn, which then the ball was out of his hands. Just my thoughts.

bob jenkins

HawkeyeCubP wrote
Even after watching the tape? I'd bet my schedule this is graded an IC. And correctly so.

So? Just becasue it's wrong doesn't mean it should be reviewable. There a probably a dozen or more "IC"s in a game -- the only difference is that at the end of a game a team doesn't have a chance to "recover" from it. But, they've had plenty of time to make enough plays so it doesn't matter. If they don't do either, that's the breaks.

I'm with Jeff that there are too many reviews.

But, I'd expect there to be more.

letemplay

Knight is sure in the dark. Wonder if Teddy V has sent him a nice tweet:p

Jay R

This is not fair to the officials. You have a situation that is not reviewable so the officials have to use their ears to judge. He appears to release the shot just before the horn which is the only way the officials can judge. Then the rest of the world gets to criticize the officials but not taking into account the fact that the horn and the shot clock are not synchronized. In this world of HD/multiple replays ....., give the officials the tools to make the proper decision.