Subbing during FTAs

OKREF

I don't care when they get to the table, I am letting them in.

Amesman

Nevadaref wrote
You were not correct and you do need to check the table for subs following the final FTA being successful. That is a dead ball with the clock stopped and thus by rule a substitution opportunity for both teams. There is no requirement for the substitute to report any earlier than that dead ball.

No wonder the coach was sarcastic towards you, you were inventing your own rules!

Don't bother ordering dessert for me tonight. I'll be over here in the corner, eating the humble pie I made and baked all for myself ...

Don't know what came over me, but I'm now the better for it.

Nevadaref

Amesman wrote
Don't bother ordering dessert for me tonight. I'll be over here in the corner, eating the humble pie I made and baked all for myself ...

Don't know what came over me, but I'm now the better for it.

Good for all of us once in a while.

Last night I mistakenly granted a TO to the asst coach! 😮
He was sitting where the head coach was just two seconds ago. The head coach had stood up and walked about 10 feet away.

The head coach was cool about it though and said that he wanted the TO anyway, so I just charged it and moved on.

just another ref

BillyMac wrote
The substitute must be at the X when the official is about to make the ball live, that is, about to put the ball at the disposal of a free throw shooter, or about to put the ball at the disposal of a throw-er-in-er. The key words are "about to".

This is based on what?

Nevadaref

BillyMac wrote
The substitute must be at the X when the official is about to make the ball live, that is, about to put the ball at the disposal of a free throw shooter, or about to put the ball at the disposal of a throw-er-in-er. The key words are "about to".

just another ref wrote
This is based on what?

This sentence in 3-3-2: "If the ball is about to
become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld."

just another ref

Nevadaref wrote
This sentence in 3-3-2: "If the ball is about to
become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld."

This does not relate to the OP, where a buzzer sounds after a made free throw. At this point, it doesn't matter when the sub arrived at the X.

BillyMac

just another ref wrote
This does not relate to the OP, where a buzzer sounds after a made free throw. At this point, it doesn't matter when the sub arrived at the X.

But it will certainly matter for the second substitute who comes to the X at the table. I'm not going to play musical substitutes.

Nevadaref

just another ref wrote
This does not relate to the OP, where a buzzer sounds after a made free throw. At this point, it doesn't matter when the sub arrived at the X.

The horn should not be sounded until after the substitute has reported, so why would the "buzzer" sound after a made FT unless a substitute is waiting at the X? If there's no one there, then we keep going. That was the point that BillyM was making.

Take a look at 3-3-1d.
If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is
entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a
sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the
clock is stopped.

just another ref

Nevadaref wrote
The horn should not be sounded until after the substitute has reported, so why would the "buzzer" sound after a made FT unless a substitute is waiting at the X?

It shouldn't and it didn't. In the OP, if I understand correctly, the official refused to allow a sub after the second free throw because there was no sub at the table when he checked after the first.

I disallowed a sub after a made FTA because I felt the coach ran her to the table too late. I felt the sub should have been there by the time I checked the table after the first FTA was converted.

I'm not turning around again to see if someone's at the table while the teams are starting to hustle down the court after the made 2nd FTA.

There is ample time for a sub to report while the ball is at the disposal of the shooter for the second free throw.

Raymond

just another ref wrote
It shouldn't and it didn't. In the OP, if I understand correctly, the official refused to allow a sub after the second free throw because there was no sub at the table when he checked after the first.

There is ample time for a sub to report while the ball is at the disposal of the shooter for the second free throw.

Ames has already done a Mea Culpa for not allowing the sub. Didn't think we were still debating that aspect.

Nevadaref

just another ref wrote
It shouldn't and it didn't. In the OP, if I understand correctly, the official refused to allow a sub after the second free throw because there was no sub at the table when he checked after the first.

Oh, I see the disconnection now. I was responding to the post which you quoted BillyMac and my citation was to support what he wrote, which was for a more general situation.

We agree about the situation in the OP. That substitute met the requirement of the rule which I cited and what BillyMac said.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
Oh, I see the disconnection now. I was responding to the post which you quoted BillyMac and my citation was to support what he wrote, which was for a more general situation. We agree about the situation in the OP. That substitute met the requirement of the rule which I cited and what BillyMac said.

You know just another ref, and Nevadaref, and this goes for me, as well. We all have to stop drinking adult beverages while we're posting on the Forum.