POI or AP?

Hugh Refner

NF rules. Double personal foul called on A1 and B1 at the same time. Do you go to POI or AP? Thanks.

APG

For all double fouls, you always go to the POI. It just happens that sometimes, the AP is the POI.

bainsey

POI. If there's no team control, AP.

Zoochy

The following case play best describes POI of Double fouls as well as location of administrating the Throw-in.

4.19.8 SITUATION E: A1 has control of the ball in Team A's frontcourt. Post
players A5 and B5 are pushing each other in an attempt to gain a more advantageous position on the block while (a) A1 is dribbling the ball; (b) the ball is in the air on a pass from A1 to A2; or (c) the ball is in the air on an unsuccessful try for goal by A1. An official calls a double personal foul on A5 and B5. RULING: In (a) and (b), Team A had control of the ball when the double foul occurred, and thus play will be resumed at the point of interruption. Team A will have a designated spot throw-in nearest the location where the ball was located when the double foul occurred. In (c), no team has control while a try for goal is in flight, and since the try was unsuccessful, there is no obvious point of interruption. Play will be resumed with an alternating possession throw-in nearest the location where the ball was located when the double foul occurred. Had the try been successful, the point of interruption would have been a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. (4-36; 6-4-3g; 7-5-3b)

APG

bainsey wrote
POI. If there's no team control, AP.

Correction, if there's no team control, and no goal, infraction, or end of period/half is involved.

bainsey

AllPurposeGamer wrote
Correction, if there's no team control, and no goal, infraction, or end of period/half is involved.

Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

APG

bainsey wrote
Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

Player jockeying for rebounding position...double foul while a try is in flight. Try goes in. You had a double foul with no team control, and according to your statement, we'd go to the AP, but there's a goal involved, therefore you wouldn't use the AP and the opposing team would have an unrestricted throw-in on the endline.

The problem with your statement is you'll have officials that would at times, erroneously give the ball back to the team that just made a basket or force a change of the AP when it's not warranted, if they followed the rule you didn't fully qualify.

tref

bainsey wrote
Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control.

True, but if the try was successful then the POI is endline running for the non-scoring team. No arrow necessary on successful trys when a DF occurs.

bainsey

tref wrote
True, but if the try was successful then the POI is endline running for the non-scoring team. No arrow necessary on successful trys when a DF occurs.

Yup, I'm awake now. Thanks.

Scrapper1

Also, if there's a double personal during a throw-in. No team control, but you don't go to the arrow.

Scrapper1

Hugh Refner wrote
NF rules. Double personal foul called on A1 and B1 at the same time. Do you go to POI or AP? Thanks.

As may be clear by now, Hugh, you go to the POI. However, you haven't given us enough information to determine what the POI is in this case. It may be an AP throw-in, or it could be simply a throw-in to the team that had control.

Multiple Sports

bainsey wrote
Yup, I'm awake now. Thanks.

Took you til 1 o'clock on this one to wake up ???????

APG

Scrapper1 wrote
Also, if there's a double personal during a throw-in. No team control, but you don't go to the arrow.

Actually there is team control. 😉 But your point still remains.

Adam

bainsey wrote
Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

FT, DF on the jockeying, followed by the FT missing the iron.

billyu2

bainsey wrote
Right, but he's talking double personal fouls here. If a goal is involved, the double personal foul typically happened during the shot -- no team control. Your point on end of period is well taken: tweet, double foul, horn. I'm struggling to think of a scenario where a double foul would precede a violation.

Ball in flight, double foul, offensive basket interference?

Scrapper1

AllPurposeGamer wrote
Actually there is team control. 😉 But your point still remains.

HA-HA!! I knew somebody would jump on that!! And actually -- I think we'll have to see the rule changes for this year.

My understanding is that they changed the definition of "team control foul" and deleted ALL the changes they made last year regarding control. So I think (I haven't seen the rulebook yet) that there is, once again, no player control or team control during a throw-in.

I knew I could bait somebody into that one 😀

Adam

Or, B1 commits a shooting foul. While the ball is in the air, B2 and A2 commit a double foul.

bainsey

Multiple Sports wrote
Took you til 1 o'clock on this one to wake up ???????

Yup, started work five hours earlier than normal this morning. Sleep schedule a bit hazy.

APG

Scrapper1 wrote
HA-HA!! I knew somebody would jump on that!! And actually -- I think we'll have to see the rule changes for this year.

My understanding is that they changed the definition of "team control foul" and deleted ALL the changes they made last year regarding control. So I think (I haven't seen the rulebook yet) that there is, once again, no player control or team control during a throw-in.

I knew I could bait somebody into that one 😃

Well...assuming NFHS doesn't change any language as it relates to double foul enforcement, we'd still handle the play the same, even if they did away with player/team control during a throw-in.

Adam

AllPurposeGamer wrote
Well...assuming NFHS doesn't change any language as it relates to double foul enforcement, we'd still handle the play the same, even if they did away with player/team control during a throw-in.

True, but it would be one more of many examples of situations when there is no TC but you would not go AP on a DF. And those who insist on AP in all such situations will have one more chance to be wrong.