Illegal Pitch?

IRISHMAFIA

AtlUmpSteve wrote
I had a phone call from a coach at the 18 Gold Qualifier this past weekend in Florida (I was in Las Vegas, instead), asking about a TEAM FLA pitcher doing a similar thing that the umpire insisted was legal. As did the UIC (also state UIC).

The coach said (I wasn't there, just repeating his statements) that in an advanced umpire clinic, he was told 6.3.B (removes one hand from the ball and returns the ball to both hands) only applied if the ball was actually and completely placed inside the glove a second time, that despite the hands obviously touching together several times on most pitches, the other "touches" didn't count (in the violation commonly named "double-touch").

I may have missed that clinic. Am I missing something here?

I find that, well, let's say "questionable". Hand and glove coming together only counts the first time, but not the next two or three times unless the ball/hand is completely submerged into the glove?

Think I'll wait for the clarification to come out before I address this to anyone else.

SpringtownHawk

Technically, the pitcher touched twice but, has she gained any advantage, especially at game speed, just say'n?

RKBUmp

SpringtownHawk wrote
Technically, the pitcher touched twice but, has she gained any advantage, especially at game speed, just say'n?

Where in the rule book does it say anything about only if gaining advantage? You enforce the rules as written otherwise you are picking and choosing what you personally wish to enforce.

tmielke

MHSAA (Michigan) would not say it is illegal. It has been sent to the fed rules committee I believe. ASA district UIC says definitely illegal. She has changed to a legal motion that should work for FED and ASA.

DeputyUICHousto

AtlUmpSteve wrote
It would do you a great service to find a specific rule reference for what you believe this to violate.

6.2 says the pitch starts when the hands are separated once they've been placed together

and I believe 6.3.D says "must not make two revolutions..."

IRISHMAFIA

DeputyUICHousto wrote
6.2 says the pitch starts when the hands are separated once they've been placed together

and I believe 6.3.D says "must not make two revolutions..."

But the pitcher can pass the hip twice and make less than two revolutions. I believe the point is that the number of times the ball passes the hip is irrelevant to FP rules.

Crabby_Bob

I believe the language comes from RS 40.E. This pitcher is coming forward past the hip three times yet she isn't making two full revolutions.

AtlUmpSteve

Crabby_Bob wrote
I believe the language comes from RS 40.E. This pitcher is coming forward past the hip three times yet she isn't making two full revolutions.

And, if she waved her arms back and forth 8 times BEFORE bring her hands together, that could be 8 more times past the hip, without ANY revolutions yet.

My point is, there is no rule that addresses "past the hip" That is why I suggested finding a rule that applied to exactly THAT language. You would lose a protest based on misapplication of the rule because you used language that isn't in the rule; even if the pitch motion IS illegal, you have an obligation to reference rulebook terminology, since misapplication is protestable, even if your judgment isn't.

MD Longhorn

I think 95% of the good pitchers I've seen (maybe more) pass the hip exactly 3 times (back, forward, forward) while making their completely legal pitch that includes approx 1 1/3 or 1 1/2 revolutions (i.e. less than 2).

IRISHMAFIA

mbcrowder wrote
I think 95% of the good pitchers I've seen (maybe more) pass the hip exactly 3 times (back, forward, forward) while making their completely legal pitch that includes approx 1 1/3 or 1 1/2 revolutions (i.e. less than 2).

ASA has, to the best of my knowledge, always allowed the dropping of the arm to the side when separating as of no importance. However, that is not what happened in the video offered.

Umpteenth

ASA 6-3-c: The pitcher must not make a stop or reversal of the forward motion after separating the hands.
In the video, the pitcher stops after reaching the 1:00 position (approximate), appears to bring the hands together again, and then reverses direction. IMJ she clearly violates this rule.

MD Longhorn

IRISHMAFIA wrote
ASA has, to the best of my knowledge, always allowed the dropping of the arm to the side when separating as of no importance. However, that is not what happened in the video offered.

I should have quoted. I was referring to Deputy's assertions regarding passing the hip (which is irrelevant). I agree the video is an IP.

roadking

In that video I dont see anything that would make me think IP.

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