Well, It Finally Happened ...

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
A is incorrectly given an AP throw in that should have gone to B. Before the pass is released, a) B1 commits a plane violation, or b) A2 fouls B2, or c) A1 reaches the ball across the plane and B1 ties the ball up.

You then realize the error.

In all three cases, the throw-in was never complete. So, I have...
a) DOG, ball goes back to B.
b) team control foul on A2, ball goes back to B
c) ball goes back to B (the held ball doesn't change the arrow, as the throw-in never completed)

Some of this seems a bit counter-intuitive, but that's what I have.

PG_Ref

bainsey wrote
c) ball goes back to B (the held ball doesn't change the arrow, as the throw-in never completed)

Some of this seems a bit counter-intuitive, but that's what I have.

What if B was entitled to the arrow with the held ball?

Raymond

PG_Ref wrote
What if B was entitled to the arrow with the held ball?

B is entitled to arrow and he said B would get the throw-in.

PG_Ref

BadNewsRef wrote
B is entitled to arrow and he said B would get the throw-in.

The scenario was that A had the ball for an AP arrow throw-in, and the ball not released yet ... did I have a brain fart?

bainsey

BadNewsRef wrote
B is entitled to arrow and he said B would get the throw-in.

Right, but I believe PG is asking whether B would keep the arrow. It's a foul on A, so B gets the ball, and it's not an APTI.

In a) and c), however, I have the arrow switching after a completed throw-in.

PG_Ref

bainsey wrote
In a) and c), however, I have the arrow switching after a completed throw-in.

In a) , did the D.O.G. warning cause the throw-in to end? The throw-in team did not violate.

Raymond

PG_Ref wrote
The scenario was that A incorrectly had the ball for an AP arrow throw-in, and the ball not released yet ... did I have a brain fart?

Read my insert to your quote. 🙂

Sharpshooternes

This one is making my head hurt.

Duffman

bainsey wrote
In all three cases, the throw-in was never complete. So, I have...
a) DOG, ball goes back to B.
b) team control foul on A2, ball goes back to B
c) ball goes back to B (the held ball doesn't change the arrow, as the throw-in never completed)

Some of this seems a bit counter-intuitive, but that's what I have.

What did we decide was the cut off for that to be correctible? Was it at the end of the first throw in? Or was it prior to the ball being put in play. If it’s the former I’d argue that all three of those things ends the first throw in, and necessitates a second throw in (or potentially shots if B is in the bonus).

PG_Ref

BadNewsRef wrote
Read my insert to your quote. 🙂

Agreed ... but we still have a held ball on an (incorrect) AP throw-in. Was the whistle blown for a held ball situation? If so, it determines what we have next.

Raymond

PG_Ref wrote
Agreed ... but we still have a held ball on an (incorrect) AP throw-in. Was the whistle blown for a held ball situation? If so, it determines what we have next.

On a held ball of this type (thrower sticks ball through plane) during an AP throw-in the next throw-in is an AP throw-in for the team which had the arrow. Team B had the arrow, but Team A was incorrectly given the throw-in. Therefore it is an AP throw-in for Team B.

bainsey

PG_Ref wrote
In a) , did the D.O.G. warning cause the throw-in to end? The throw-in team did not violate.

This is a good point, as it never was A's throw-in in the first place. Perhaps there's no DOG here.

Okay, so this opens up a can of worms. If you're B, and A has the throw-in incorrectly, should you just step over the line and cause a whistle, thereby getting the ball back when the mistake is realized (and no DOG)?

Adam

Duffman wrote
What did we decide was the cut off for that to be correctible? Was it at the end of the first throw in? Or was it prior to the ball being put in play. If it’s the former I’d argue that all three of those things ends the first throw in, and necessitates a second throw in (or potentially shots if B is in the bonus).

There is a rule for when a throw in ends. None of these situations qualify.

Adam

bainsey wrote
This is a good point, as it never was A's throw-in in the first place. Perhaps there's no DOG here.

Okay, so this opens up a can of worms. If you're B, and A has the throw-in incorrectly, should you just step over the line and cause a whistle, thereby getting the ball back when the mistake is realized (and no DOG)?

I'm giving B both.

PG_Ref

BadNewsRef wrote
On a held ball of this type (thrower sticks ball through plane) during an AP throw-in the next throw-in is an AP throw-in for the team which had the arrow. Team B had the arrow, but Team A was incorrectly given the throw-in. Therefore it is an AP throw-in for Team B.

Ok, I read Snagwells original post as if the arrow was incorrectly pointing towards A (and they were incorrectly given the ball) when it should have been pointing toward B.

Adam

PG_Ref wrote
Ok, I read Snagwells original post as if the arrow was incorrectly pointing towards A (and they were incorrectly given the ball) when it should have been pointing toward B.

The point is A was given an AP throw in by mistake.

Raymond

PG_Ref wrote
Ok, I read Snagwells original post as if the arrow was incorrectly pointing towards A (and they were incorrectly given the ball) when it should have been pointing toward B.

Snaqwells wrote
The point is A was given an AP throw in by mistake.

Yep, whether it's b/c the official screwed up or the table screwed up is inconsequential to the scenario.

Raymond

bainsey wrote
This is a good point, as it never was A's throw-in in the first place. Perhaps there's no DOG here.

Okay, so this opens up a can of worms. If you're B, and A has the throw-in incorrectly, should you just step over the line and cause a whistle, thereby getting the ball back when the mistake is realized (and no DOG)?

Snaqwells wrote
I'm giving B both.

I'm going to disagree here by applying the same logic of 2-10-4: ...and the activity during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be canceled.

So I would not give B a DOG warning nor would I charge A2 the foul in the other scenario you gave.

Sharpshooternes

BadNewsRef wrote
I'm going to disagree here by applying the same logic of 2-10-4: ...and the activity during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be canceled.

So I would not give B a DOG warning nor would I charge A2 the foul in the other scenario you gave.

But would you give them the technical if they already had the DOG warning?

Raymond

Sharpshooternes wrote
But would you give them the technical if they already had the DOG warning?

No, b/c I'm ignoring the activity, in this case breaking the plane. I know it's a grey area but that's how I would go.

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