Toren Triad zebra wroteThis didn't happen in my game, but what if?: 4 tics remaining tied game A1 throws it into A2 who beats the bad defense and is heading for a layup 50 feet away. I notice clock hasn't started, I begin a count in my head and blow it dead prior to the layup. Just prior to blowing it dead, I notice the clock is now running and has 3 seconds remaining (obviously started 2 seconds or more late) I blow whistle, clock stops and there is 2.4 remaining. We're going to OT. I'm sure there would be some angry people there, but is this what you would do? I would visibly have a count. You want to be supported by film.
Triad zebra Toren wroteI would visibly have a count. You want to be supported by film. Fortunately this has not happened, but by thinking about it ahead of time I would be prepared and I would have a wrist flick as my visual count
Adam I've done it, twice. Now, I always have a count in the closing seconds, and I would rather stop play two seconds in, reset the clock, and have a new throw in at the appropriate spot. To me, that's the least problematic solution.
Nevadaref Triad zebra wroteFortunately this has not happened, but by thinking about it ahead of time I would be prepared and I would have a wrist flick as my visual count Use a full arm swing for this count. You want it to be clearly visible on any video.
just another ref If you use a full arm swing for this purpose, couldn't it conceivably cause confusion. A player or coach mistakes it for a closely guarded count?
Adam just another ref wroteIf you use a full arm swing for this purpose, couldn't it conceivably cause confusion. A player or coach mistakes it for a closely guarded count? I doubt they're paying that close attention to your ARM swing with 4 seconds left.
just another ref Snaqwells wroteI doubt they're paying that close attention to your ARM swing with 4 seconds left. Not with 4, but this play could have started with 12. Using a mechanic for anything other than its specified purpose so it will show up in a video doesn't seem right to me. And I said conceivably.
Adam just another ref wroteNot with 4, but this play could have started with 12. Using a mechanic for anything other than its specified purpose so it will show up in a video doesn't seem right to me. And I said conceivably. With that much time left to start the play, the best answer is definitely to kill the play, take off the appropriate time, and put it back in play.
tjones1 Snaqwells wroteWith that much time left to start the play, the best answer is definitely to kill the play, take off the appropriate time, and put it back in play. Agree.
mbyron Snaqwells wroteIt's as if I've been hugged... ...by a ___________________. (Fill in the blank contest.)
Cobra just another ref wroteNot with 4, but this play could have started with 12. Using a mechanic for anything other than its specified purpose so it will show up in a video doesn't seem right to me. And I said conceivably. Visible counting showing up on video doesn't really even matter. Anyone watching on video will be able to use a watch to see how much time elapsed between when the clock should have started and when the official stopped the game. You will either either be right or be wrong; either you stopped the game before the 4 seconds expired or after. No one is going to care that your arm was moving. No player is going to say "well it was actually only 3.7 seconds but him arm moved 4 times so I should have noticed and shot the ball quicker."
Camron Rust Cobra wroteVisible counting showing up on video doesn't really even matter. Anyone watching on video will be able to use a watch to see how much time elapsed between when the clock should have started and when the official stopped the game. You will either either be right or be wrong; either you stopped the game before the 4 seconds expired or after. No one is going to care that your arm was moving. No player is going to say "well it was actually only 3.7 seconds but him arm moved 4 times so I should have noticed and shot the ball quicker." No, they will know you didn't guess....that you based any adjustment on a count they could easily see you had.
Cobra Camron Rust wroteNo, they will know you didn't guess....that you based any adjustment on a count they could easily see you had. Anyone who thinks that an official could possibly just be guessing on a call like this obviously doesn't get it and therefore their opinion should not matter. When the video is on Youtube everyone is just going to look at the video timer and see how much time should have gone off the game clock. Either the game was ended before or after 4 seconds had elapsed. The call was either correct or incorrect; that's all the people care about. Getting the call wrong after the video shows you weren't guessing isn't any better than just plain getting the call wrong without a visible count.
Nevadaref Cobra wroteAnyone who thinks that an official could possibly just be guessing on a call like this obviously doesn't get it and therefore their opinion should not matter. When the video is on Youtube everyone is just going to look at the video timer and see how much time should have gone off the game clock. Either the game was ended before or after 4 seconds had elapsed. The call was either correct or incorrect; that's all the people care about. Getting the call wrong after the video shows you weren't guessing isn't any better than just plain getting the call wrong without a visible count. You still don't get it. IT'S ABOUT FOLLOWING THE RULES!!!!!! The rules require the referee to have definite knowledge of any timing error to correct it. The rules book states that an official's count may be used for the correction. So if the clock isn't running when it should be and this needs to be corrected, what are you going to use other than a count to fix it? You can't just make something up or think numbers in your head because the RULES don't allow that.
just another ref Nevadaref wrote The rules require the referee to have definite knowledge of any timing error to correct it. The rules book states that an official's count may be used for the correction. So if the clock isn't running when it should be and this needs to be corrected, what are you going to use other than a count to fix it? You can't just make something up or think numbers in your head because the RULES don't allow that. So counting in your head would not qualify as definite knowledge but a visible count would?
Rich just another ref wroteSo counting in your head would not qualify as definite knowledge but a visible count would? I would use a "count in my head" without thinking twice.