Running to First

Ima Green Blue

Hey everyone! Thanks in advance for keeping me on the straight and narrow. This is my second year doing Fed and it's going well, but I had a coach question me a few times the other night and he got me wondering.. Here's the sich-
BR lays down a nice bunt that rolls toward the pitcher about three feet out of the batter's box. Catcher and pitcher both scramble, runner hauls for first, pitcher comes up with the ball, first baseman can't seem to get the angle on the throw and switches feet on the bag, throw goes in the dirt, runner tags the bag and I call safe. Here's what the coach saw-BR alters her path too far out of the box and doesn't make a direct path to the running "box" on the baseline. He felt that this caused the firstbaseman to have to circle around her to get the throw and was interference. He cited her footprints to prove his point. (But then he also tried to convince me that because his third baseman had a foot fair when she snagged a foul ground ball, that it was fair.....) I thanked him for sharing his view but that it just wasn't what I saw, but now I'm wondering if there is something that I wasn't looking for that I should be in the future. I figured that if she was staying out of the way of the catcher jumping out towards the ball, that would explain why she veered infield on her way to the box. Is there something that I'm missing? Thanks again and hi! to everyone from McGriff's!

Dakota

If I understand what you are saying, the coach was arguing that the runner veered too far into the infield in the first half of the base path, not that she ran out of the running lane in the last half.

The BR is not required to run in a direct route to anywhere unless an attempted tag is being made on her. In addition, she is required to stay clear of any fielders attempting to field the batted ball.

Unless you judged that the BR was running into the infield to intentionally interfere, there is no infraction here that I can see.

mick

Originally posted by Dakota
Unless you judged that the BR was running into the infield to intentionally interfere, there is no infraction here that I can see.

Dakota,
Rule 8-2-5 does not require "intention".

By running inside the line, the runner may, or may not, have interfered with the defense, based soley upon the umpires judgement.
By running outside the line the runner will not have interfered.

mick

Oh, yeah, welcome to Official Forum, Ima 😉

[Edited by mick on Apr 24th, 2003 at 12:08 PM]

CecilOne

First of all, welcome and congratulations on being so articulate and on handling the situation so well ("[/i]Here's what the coach saw-BR alters her path too far out of the box and doesn't make a direct path to the running "box" on the baseline. He felt that this caused the firstbaseman to have to circle around her to get the throw and was interference. He cited her footprints to prove his point. (But then he also tried to convince me that because his third baseman had a foot fair when she snagged a foul ground ball, that it was fair.....) I thanked him for sharing his view but that it just wasn't what I saw, but now I'm wondering if there is something that I wasn't looking for that I should be in the future. [/i]").

Simple part next: if the BR was out of the running lane and that was what caused "first baseman can't seem to get the angle on the throw and switches feet on the bag, throw goes in the dirt"; then that sounds like a running lane violation. Again, only if the BR caused the throw to be missed by being out of the running lane in the last 30 feet, at the time.

Other part: any runner has a "base path" from wherever directly to the base, other than avoiding a fielder or the ball (ignore avoiding a tag for now). If "BR alters her path too far out of the box and doesn't make a direct path" was for other reasons, then the umpire has to judge on whether there was interference with either fielder; separately from the running lane question. The BR doesn't have to take a direct path to the running lane as long as being out of it in the last 3o feet doesn't cause the fielder at 1st to miss the throw.

Dakota

Originally posted by mick
Rule 8-2-5 does not require "intention".

I agree, but note that as I understood the description of the play, the coach was complaining because the runner did not take a direct path to the running lane - IOW, she was in the first 30 ft of the base line - she hadn't reached the running lane yet.

Certainly, if she was outside of the running lane, then intent was not required. Even so, she is allowed to run outside the running lane if it is to avoid a fielder going for the batted ball.

mo99

Welcome to the board Cindy!! I see no problem here as long as Batter-runner was in the 3 foot running lane.She does not have to make a direct line to the running lane and must of course avoid interfering with the fielders right to play the ball.From your description of the play,you got it right.By the way,the coach showed his rules knowledge on the ball fielded by his thirdbaseman while having her foot in fair territory.As umpires,we all know it is the position of the ball that determines fair/foul and not the position of the fielder. Jeff

IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by Ima Green Blue
<snip>

(But then he also tried to convince me that because his third baseman had a foot fair when she snagged a foul ground ball, that it was fair.....) I thanked him for sharing his view but that it just wasn't what I saw, but now I'm wondering if there is something that I wasn't looking for that I should be in the future.

Yes, you should be looking for something on this play....their scorebook!!!!

There have been times, and this looks like one of them, when the umpire justs needs to be wanted.

Coach: I know the rules, you are wrong.

Ump: Ya' know coach, maybe you're right. Get me your scorebook so I can note your protest.

Coach: I didn't say anything about protesting the game.

Ump: C'mon coach. You've got all that experience, I'm sure you feel that a protest is appropriate or you wouldn't be out here telling me how stupid I am. Please, coach, let me sign your book.

Coach: Well, aahh, I don't know, aahh, maybe I don't, well, you know, want to, aahh, protest.

Ump: Aawwwe, dang it all! And here I so badly wanted to make sure I got this right. Are you sure you don't want to protest, coach?

Coach: Ummm, no, I don't think so, not this time.

Ump: Good, thank you. Now go sit down and watch the game. Play!

JMHO,

scottk_61

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Originally posted by Ima Green Blue
<snip>

(But then he also tried to convince me that because his third baseman had a foot fair when she snagged a foul ground ball, that it was fair.....) I thanked him for sharing his view but that it just wasn't what I saw, but now I'm wondering if there is something that I wasn't looking for that I should be in the future.

Yes, you should be looking for something on this play....their scorebook!!!!

There have been times, and this looks like one of them, when the umpire justs needs to be wanted.

Coach: I know the rules, you are wrong.

Ump: Ya' know coach, maybe you're right. Get me your scorebook so I can note your protest.

Coach: I didn't say anything about protesting the game.

Ump: C'mon coach. You've got all that experience, I'm sure you feel that a protest is appropriate or you wouldn't be out here telling me how stupid I am. Please, coach, let me sign your book.

Coach: Well, aahh, I don't know, aahh, maybe I don't, well, you know, want to, aahh, protest.

Ump: Aawwwe, dang it all! And here I so badly wanted to make sure I got this right. Are you sure you don't want to protest, coach?

Coach: Ummm, no, I don't think so, not this time.

Ump: Good, thank you. Now go sit down and watch the game. Play!

JMHO,

Hehehe, this I love.....
I gotta remeber to use this in the future.