Player control on a throw in?

Camron Rust

BillyMac wrote
Why not a player control foul?

Does it really matter....they're penalized EXACTLY the same. Once the team control foul was instituted, the player control foul really became unnecessary.

Terrapins Fan

fiasco wrote
Have you even looked in the rule book? Trust me, no one here is going to just hand you the answer to a test question.

Find the section on player control and see if it says anything about the throw in.

Dude, you're acting like a moron.

I have scored in the high 90's for the last 7 years on part 1 and part 2. I did 97 on the test last night.

I asked a simple question. If YOU don't have the answer, please, don't answer.

Thanks everyone else. I did figure it out. In the past there was no team control when the ball was OOB, so I had to question player control.

Adam

Camron Rust wrote
Does it really matter....they're penalized EXACTLY the same. Once the team control foul was instituted, the player control foul really became unnecessary.

Almost

Camron Rust

Snaqwells wrote
Almost

I don't consider whether a basket counts or not a part of the penalty...just who is recorded for a foul, FTs and/or who gets the ball.

SoInZebra

BillyMac wrote
Some, on this Forum, have stated that a player is in control while holding, or dribbling, a live ball, inbounds. I can't find a rule reference for inbounds, but I'm sure an esteemed member will be moseying along soon to give us the correct citation.

How about a twist? Inbounder A1, while holding the ball out of bounds, preparing for a throwin, reaches across the boundary and pushes B2, who is inbounds, to create more space. Player control foul?

A thrower reaches out to clear space....this sounds intentional not common and therefore not PC.

BillyMac

SoInZebra wrote
A thrower reaches out to clear space, this sounds intentional not common and therefore not PC.

Hey. One twist at a time. This ain't a game of Twister. Start your own thread.

BillyMac

Camron Rust wrote
Does it really matter, they're penalized EXACTLY the same.

Slightly. Are you going with the hand behind the head signal (player control), or the one hand punch signal (team control)?

Do you indicate a block signal when the foul was really a push? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

Do you indicate an illegal dribble signal when the violation was really a travel? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

I know that these are nit-picking, "academic", questions, but isn't one function of the Forum to educate?

Scrapper1

Camron Rust wrote
Does it really matter....they're penalized EXACTLY the same. Once the team control foul was instituted, the player control foul really became unnecessary.

Snaqwells wrote
Almost

Camron Rust wrote
I don't consider whether a basket counts or not a part of the penalty...just who is recorded for a foul, FTs and/or who gets the ball.

And the free throws are why Snaqs is correct. An airborne shooter is not covered by the team control foul rule. Without the player control foul, a "try, release, crash" could result in a 1-and-1 for the defender. So even with the team control foul at your disposal, you still need the player control foul.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Terrapins Fan wrote
It's a question on Part 1.

A player is in control when holding a live ball.

But when he is holding the ball for a throw in, it's live, is he in player control then?

BillyMac:

Hoped that an Esteemed Member of the Basketball Forum would mosey along and post one of his well written opinions on the subject being discussed, and I am happy to oblige, 😀.

The Cliff Notes version: Yes, the Thrower has PC while holding a Live Ball during a throw-in.

If the masses demand it, I will be more that happy, 😀, to post the short explanation of my long version.

MTD, Sr.

tjones1

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
BillyMac:

Hoped that an Esteemed Member of the Basketball Forum would mosey along and post one of his well written opinions on the subject being discussed, and I am happy to oblige, 😀.

The Cliff Notes version: Yes, the Thrower has PC while holding a Live Ball during a throw-in.

If the masses demand it, I will be more that happy, 😀, to post the short explanation of my long version.

MTD, Sr.

Go, Go! 🙂

billyu2

BillyMac wrote
Player control foul.

It matters, ever so slightly. Are you going with the hand behind the head signal (player control), or the one hand punch signal (team control)?

Here in the Land that is round at both ends and hi in the middle we use the same signal for both: hand behind the head, followed by the directional signal.

APG

BillyMac wrote
Slightly. Are you going with the hand behind the head signal (player control), or the one hand punch signal (team control)?

Do you indicate a block signal when the foul was really a push? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

Do you indicate an illegal dribble signal when the violation was really a travel? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

I know that these are nit-picking, "academic", questions, but isn't one function of the Forum to educate?

Except in this case, if you punched or do the stupid player control signal, you're still technically right with either...you know if you want to go that route.

APG

SoInZebra wrote
A thrower reaches out to clear space....this sounds intentional not common and therefore not PC.

Why does it have to be intentional? Players try to clear out space all the time and we're not trying the X's up. In fact, I'd say that 9/10, if this situation were to actually present itself, it wouldn't be an intentional foul.

Camron Rust

BillyMac wrote
Slightly. Are you going with the hand behind the head signal (player control), or the one hand punch signal (team control)?

Do you indicate a block signal when the foul was really a push? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

Do you indicate an illegal dribble signal when the violation was really a travel? "They're penalized EXACTLY the same".

I know that these are nit-picking, "academic", questions, but isn't one function of the Forum to educate?

A signal is not a penalty.

Camron Rust

Scrapper1 wrote
And the free throws are why Snaqs is correct. An airborne shooter is not covered by the team control foul rule. Without the player control foul, a "try, release, crash" could result in a 1-and-1 for the defender. So even with the team control foul at your disposal, you still need the player control foul.

Still the same penalty for the two fouls whenever they can currently be called. And if they merged them into one, the airborne shooter exception would be blended into the team control foul.

Scrapper1

Camron Rust wrote
Still the same penalty for the two fouls whenever they can currently be called.

But that's not what you said earlier.

And if they merged them into one, the airborne shooter exception would be blended into the team control foul.

Perhaps, but again, that's not what you said. You said:

Once the team control foul was instituted, the player control foul really became unnecessary.

And not to be overly anal, but that's just not true. Even after the team control foul was instituted, there was a situation remaining that was a player control foul, which was NOT a team control foul. That's my only point, and it's the point that I think Snaq was making when he correctly said "Almost".

Adam

Scrapper is right. That was my point.

Camron Rust

Scrapper1 wrote
But that's not what you said earlier.

Perhaps, but again, that's not what you said. You said:

And not to be overly anal, but that's just not true. Even after the team control foul was instituted, there was a situation remaining that was a player control foul, which was NOT a team control foul. That's my only point, and it's the point that I think Snaq was making when he correctly said "Almost".

And my point was that splitting them into two separate names serves no benefit because the very same exception that is tacked on the the player control foul for an airborne shooter could just as easily be tacked onto the team control foul. Having both is not necessary at all. The PENALTY remains the same

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

billyu2 wrote
[/B]

Here in the Land that is round at both ends and hi in the middle we use the same signal for both: hand behind the head, followed by the directional signal.

No we do NOT use both signals in Buckeye Land. What the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Chairman (an OhioHSAA Adminstrator who shall remain nameless) has ruled: That the OhioHSAA will not follow the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Signals Chart concerning the correct signal for Team Control Fouls. This decision was made at the start of the 2009-10 year, the first year the TCF signal was added to the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Signals Chart.

The OhioHSAA wants its officials to use only Signal #34 for all Team Control Fouls, both Player Control Fouls and non-PCF TCFs. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Chairman's reasoning for this blatant deviation from the Signals Chart is that and I quote: "It would be confusing to the Scorer." 😮

I am going to stop now.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. To my knowledge, the OhioHSAA did not seek permission of the NFHS to deviate from the Official Signals Chart.

billyu2

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
No we do NOT use both signals in Buckeye Land. What the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Chairman (an OhioHSAA Adminstrator who shall remain nameless) has ruled: That the OhioHSAA will not follow the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Signals Chart concerning the correct signal for Team Control Fouls. This decision was made at the start of the 2009-10 year, the first year the TCF signal was added to the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Signals Chart.

The OhioHSAA wants its officials to use only Signal #34 for all Team Control Fouls, both Player Control Fouls and non-PCF TCFs. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee Chairman's reasoning for this blatant deviation from the Signals Chart is that and I quote: "It would be confusing to the Scorer." 😮

I am going to stop now.

P.S. To my knowledge, the OhioHSAA did not seek permission of the NFHS to deviate from the Official Signals Chart.

Mark, didn't say OHSAA uses both. I said we use the same signal for both (PC andTC) hand behind the head which is, as you said, signal #34. (for all those officials who memorize signal #'s)

« Previous Page Next Page »