NFHS - Offense Breaking Huddle with 12?

IMSports007

What's the official interpretation on this rule?

It's NOT a penalty as far as I can tell in NFHS.

Any thoughts?

kdf5

There is no rule against breaking the huddle with 12 in NFHS. The rule says a replaced player must leave immediately. This has been interpreted to mean 3-5 seconds after being notified by the entering sub.

Usually the sub enters the huddle to notify the player, the huddle breaks, and the replaced player runs off. This is just a coincidence and not a foul. If the player being replaced fails to exit within 3-5 seconds then you should look hard at flagging him.

IMSports007

Where can I find the rule reference to this to show my local association?

bigjohn

If you are from Oregon!

2008 SRI Bulletin #3 ? September 15, 2008 (SWOFOA)

BktBallRef

IMSports007 wrote
What's the official interpretation on this rule?

It's NOT a penalty as far as I can tell in NFHS.

Any thoughts?

A replaced player must leave the field immediately.

In the past, the NFHS has defined immediately as 3-5 seconds.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a huddle.

NorCalRef12

IMSports007 wrote
Where can I find the rule reference to this to show my local association?

3-7-1 "Between downs any number of eligible substitutes may replace
players. Replaced players shall leave the field immediately."

2-32-15 "A substitute is a team member who may replace a player or fill a player vacancy. A substitute becomes a player when he enters the field and communicates with a teammate or an official, enters the huddle, is positioned in a formation or participates in the play. An entering substitute is not considered to be a player for encroachment restrictions until he is on his team’s side of the neutral zone. A team member entering the field to fill a player vacancy remains a substitute until he is on his team’s side of the neutral zone."

2-32-12 "A replaced player is one who has been notified by a substitute that he is to leave the field. A player is also replaced when the entering substitute becomes a player."

whitehat

The enforcing of this rule has greatly eliminated the need to throw most 15 yard illegal participation flags. If we count fast enough we can usually catch them with 12 before the snap and throw a 5 yard ill sub flag.

The Language "cannot break the huddle with 12" is not in the rule book, as has been pointed out already.

Canned Heat

Our crew really does a good job at keeping track and verbalizing "one in...one out"...etc.. I will generally give the huddle a head's up if I see it, but if they do break with 12 and then come to the line, then realize they do have 12 and one tries to run off, I'll kill it there and hit the 5 yard Sub. Inf.

I seem to remember the "breaking with 12" being brought up by Dave Anderson here in WI some years back in a transparency....maybe RichMSN can recall that.

bossman72

Can anyone give an example where they break the huddle with 12 and it's NOT an illegal substitution? I know it's not the rule, but if you break with 12, you usually have someone not leaving immediately.

LDUB

bossman72 wrote
Can anyone give an example where they break the huddle with 12 and it's NOT an illegal substitution? I know it's not the rule, but if you break with 12, you usually have someone not leaving immediately.

Not when the substitute gets there 2 seconds before it "breaks".

bossman72

LDUB wrote
Not when the substitute gets there 2 seconds before it "breaks".

Oh, i gotcha. So the NCAA rule is having 12 on the field any time after the huddle breaks?

Rich

Canned Heat wrote
Our crew really does a good job at keeping track and verbalizing "one in...one out"...etc.. I will generally give the huddle a head's up if I see it, but if they do break with 12 and then come to the line, then realize they do have 12 and one tries to run off, I'll kill it there and hit the 5 yard Sub. Inf.

I seem to remember the "breaking with 12" being brought up by Dave Anderson here in WI some years back in a transparency....maybe RichMSN can recall that.

I don't count on the WIAA for rule interpretations. I think they really try hard, but when I get the bulletins I play "count up the mistakes" with the sports I work.

It would be nice if officials wrote these columns with the WIAA having editorial control, but I don't see that happening.

BktBallRef

bossman72 wrote
Can anyone give an example where they break the huddle with 12 and it's NOT an illegal substitution? I know it's not the rule, but if you break with 12, you usually have someone not leaving immediately.

Sub comes running in and just as he gets to the huddle, it breaks before he has time to inform his teammate that it's been replaced.

[deleted]

And if a coach screams "They can't break the huddle with 12!", just tell him "This isn't the NCAA." If he gives you his "you gotta be s**ting me" look, just remind him that the ball is going to be live soon and he may want to leave the restricted area, or you may have to drop the yellow hankie. 😉