Another one for newbies

Mark Padgett

canuckrefguy wrote
Which side of the international date line are we on? :confused:

North.

BillyMac

Mark Padgett wrote
In 1966, you were in 7th grade? Why, you're just a child.

I never told you how many times I was in seventh grade, or first grade, or third grade, or fourth grade, for that matter. The third year of kindergarten was the best. We switched from regular milk, to chocolate milk.

BillyMac

mbyron wrote
Thank you, Zeno.

You mean Zeno, the Warrior Princess?

http://ac4.yt-thm-a04.yimg.com/image/7322b4f9e1a795b4

mbyron

BillyMac wrote
You mean Zeno, the Warrior Princess?

No, nor do I mean Zeno the Stoic. I mean Zeno of Elea, of course. 😉

BillyMac

mbyron wrote
No, nor do I mean Zeno the Stoic. I mean Zeno of Elea, of course.

Of course. How foolish of me to ask.

Mark Padgett

mbyron wrote
No, nor do I mean Zeno the Stoic. I mean Zeno of Elea, of course. 😉

I thought you meant this Zeno.

LocDog249

This is my favorite Zeno of all

RoboKind ZENO

181174

Indianaref wrote
Do not count the basket. Ball was not released in time. However, since he started his motion, we will shoot foul shots with the lane cleared.

Yes, this is the correct call. Just not the popular call with the coach, since he/she will not understand how you can wave off a basket but still give the shooter 2 shots for being in the act of shooting. I have made this call probably at least 10 times over the years and I have yet to have a coach understand how this could be. Not a popular call but the correct call. If fouled in the act of shooting but without releasing the ball before the horn goes off, you can't count the basket but have to give the offensive player 2 shots with the lane cleared to end the quarter or half in this instance.

Adam

181174 wrote
Yes, this is the correct call. Just not the popular call with the coach, since he/she will not understand how you can wave off a basket but still give the shooter 2 shots for being in the act of shooting. I have made this call probably at least 10 times over the years and I have yet to have a coach understand how this could be. Not a popular call but the correct call. If fouled in the act of shooting but without releasing the ball before the horn goes off, you can't count the basket but have to give the offensive player 2 shots with the lane cleared to end the quarter or half in this instance.

There is an exception to this. The rule says it doesn't count if it's not released before time expires. It does not say it doesn't count if it's not released before the horn sounds.

181174

Snaqwells wrote
There is an exception to this. The rule says it doesn't count if it's not released before time expires. It does not say it doesn't count if it's not released before the horn sounds.

You are right, I should have worded that better. Though if the horn goes off when the clock says 0.00 then I look at that as being the same thing. You are right though, we as officials have to know if the ball was released or still in the hand when the clock went to 0.00, we don't have the red light on the backboard at most schools I work here in Indiana so we do have to know by the clock not the horn or backboard light. Good point! my point is it's a hard call to explain to a coach if you are waving off the basket but still giving 2 shots for the foul, though if the shot is still in the hand when the clock reads 0.00 then that is the correct call.

GoodwillRef

JugglingReferee wrote
No foul. I'm too worried about the principal of the defensive team's school launching a protest over my judgment.

That is really funny!

bradfordwilkins

181174 wrote
You are right, I should have worded that better. Though if the horn goes off when the clock says 0.00 then I look at that as being the same thing. You are right though, we as officials have to know if the ball was released or still in the hand when the clock went to 0.00, we don't have the red light on the backboard at most schools I work here in Indiana so we do have to know by the clock not the horn or backboard light. Good point! my point is it's a hard call to explain to a coach if you are waving off the basket but still giving 2 shots for the foul, though if the shot is still in the hand when the clock reads 0.00 then that is the correct call.

Going to my earlier point though -- how can the clock expire if you blow your whistle before the clock expires? Sure the horn can sound but if you or your partners have knowledge of the clock, there has got to be some time left. Even if its .3 seconds.

M&M Guy

bradfordwilkins wrote
Going to my earlier point though -- how can the clock expire if you blow your whistle before the clock expires? Sure the horn can sound but if you or your partners have knowledge of the clock, there has got to be some time left. Even if its .3 seconds.

This is the key. Definite knowledge is not simply knowing that the horn went off after the whistle, but rather exactly what the clock read when the whistle was blown, or what the time was when the official looked at it. It is not: "I'm definitely sure the horn went off after the whistle, so we need to put something back on the clock."

bradfordwilkins

M&M Guy wrote
This is the key. Definite knowledge is not simply knowing that the horn went off after the whistle, but rather exactly what the clock read when the whistle was blown, or what the time was when the official looked at it. It is not: "I'm definitely sure the horn went off after the whistle, so we need to put something back on the clock."

I'd hope with a few seconds winding down the game, that one of my partners would be watching the clock pretty closely and thus have definite knowledge. Or at least in our theoretical scenario of proper execution, someone SHOULD be watching that clock.

M&M Guy

bradfordwilkins wrote
I'd hope with a few seconds winding down the game, that one of my partners would be watching the clock pretty closely and thus have definite knowledge. Or at least in our theoretical scenario of proper execution, someone SHOULD be watching that clock.

Absolutley agree.

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