backcourt front court violation

furlu55

A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure. If player a-2 jumped from the front court to retveive the ball in mid air which a-1 passes to him is this a violation.....????

grunewar

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure.

"You are where you are until you get where you're going."

furlu55 wrote
If player a-2 jumped from the front court to retveive the ball in mid air which a-1 passes to him is this a violation.....????

If the ball is thrown to A2 from A1 who is in the frontcourt, and A2 catches it in the air and returns/saves the ball without landing in the backcourt you have no violation.

However, if the ball is thrown to A2 from A1 who is in the front court, and A2 catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt you have a violation. A2 gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from Team A’s frontcourt, therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as A2 lands in the backcourt, they have committed a back-court violation.

A2 retains the status of where he last left the court.

mick

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure. If player a-2 jumped from the front court to retveive the ball in mid air which a-1 passes to him is this a violation.....????

Hard to say until A2 lands somewhere with, or without, the ball.

mbyron

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure.

Not correct. A player's location while airborne is determined by the last place he touched the court.

BktBallRef

mbyron wrote
Not correct. A player's location while airborne is determined by the last place he touched the court.

How is that different than what he said?

"A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure."

The last place you touched is your point of departure.

Adam

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure. If player a-2 jumped from the front court to retveive the ball in mid air which a-1 passes to him is this a violation.....????

mbyron wrote
Not correct. A player's location while airborne is determined by the last place he touched the court.

Ummmm...

BktBallRef wrote
How is that different than what he said?

"A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure."

The last place you touched is your point of departure.

... What he said.

Juulie Downs

grunewar wrote
"You are where you are until you get where you're going."

If the ball is thrown to A2 from A1 who is in the frontcourt, and A2 catches it in the air and returns/saves the ball without landing in the backcourt you have no violation.

Depends on where A2 started. If A2 was in bc when he jumped and then caught the ball in mid-air, it doesn't matter where he landed, it's a violation.

mick

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure. If player a-2 jumped from the front court to retveive the ball in mid air which a-1 passes to him is this a violation.....????

Juulie Downs wrote
Depends on where A2 started. If A2 was in bc when he jumped and then caught the ball in mid-air, it doesn't matter where he landed, it's a violation.

A2 started in the frontcourt.

Peach State Ref

I have a similar play that I saw last night at a GHSA state semi-final game. Play A: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2 who jumps from the frontcourt, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

zm1283

Peach State Ref wrote
I have a similar play that I saw last night at a GHSA state semi-final game. Play A: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2 who jumps from the frontcourt, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

BC violation. A2 caught the ball in the frontcourt and was the first to touch it in the backcourt.

This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

I'd say no because Team A never had team control in the frontcourt. B's player was the last to touch before it went to the backcourt. However, if A caught it before it hit the floor, does it still have frontcourt status until it hits the floor?

I still say no BC violation here.

JRutledge

furlu55 wrote
A player's location on the court, when airborne, is determined by the point of departure.

mbyron wrote
Not correct. A player's location while airborne is determined by the last place he touched the court.

Sorry, this sounds like an accurate statement to me. It is just a different way of saying the same thing.

Peace

Adam

Peach State Ref wrote
This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

By rule, this is not a violation. The requirements are not met:
1. Team control by A.
2. Ball gains front court status (when tipped by B).
3. A is not the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
4. A2 is the first to touch the ball with BC status.

What is missing is that part where team A is the last to touch the ball "before" it gains backcourt status.

The recent NFHS interp, however, essentially states that #3 and #4 can happen at the same time.

Now, if the ball had hit another A player rather than B1 and then bounced into the BC, it's a violation.

Peach State Ref

Originally Posted by Peach State Ref
This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

By rule, this is not a violation. The requirements are not met:
1. Team control by A.
2. Ball gains front court status (when tipped by B).
3. A is not the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
4. A2 is the first to touch the ball with BC status.

What is missing is that part where team A is the last to touch the ball "before" it gains backcourt status.

The recent NFHS interp, however, essentially states that #3 and #4 can happen at the same time.

Now, if the ball had hit another A player rather than B1 and then bounced into the BC, it's a violation.

I agree with your rationale. No violation in Play B

bob jenkins

Snaqwells wrote
By rule, this is not a violation. The requirements are not met:
1. Team control by A.
2. Ball gains front court status (when tipped by B).
3. A is not the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
4. A2 is the first to touch the ball with BC status.

What is missing is that part where team A is the last to touch the ball "before" it gains backcourt status.

The recent NFHS interp, however, essentially states that #3 and #4 can happen at the same time.

Now, if the ball had hit another A player rather than B1 and then bounced into the BC, it's a violation.

Yes, it is a violation.

A was the last to touch the ball when A2 grabbed the ball in the air, still in the FC.

The play is no different from B1 tipping a pass from FC A1 that deflects off of FC A2 into the BC where A2 recovers.

Adam

Who was the last to touch the ball "before" it got BC status? B1.
It's different than your play since in your play, A2 is the last to touch it before it goes to the BC.

JugglingReferee

bob jenkins wrote
Yes, it is a violation.

A was the last to touch the ball when A2 grabbed the ball in the air, still in the FC.

The play is no different from B1 tipping a pass from FC A1 that deflects off of FC A2 into the BC where A2 recovers.

Snaqwells wrote
Who was the last to touch the ball "before" it got BC status? B1.
It's different than your play since in your play, A2 is the last to touch it before it goes to the BC.

Always listen to bob.

Snaq, I think you're thinking about the case where A2 has already established themselves to be in the BC when they obtain possession of the ball (that has yet to hit the BC).

Adam

Consider this play and tell me how it differs, please.

A1 dribbling in BC, loses control and the ball bounces off the leg of B1, standing in the FC, and into the BC where A1 is standing when he picks it up. Is this a violation? Does it matter if A1 is picks it up before it hits the floor in the BC.

edit: I see it now. I don't know what my problem is.

violation

mick

Peach State Ref wrote
This play got me to thinking about various other scenarios. Play B: A-1 is in the backcourt and passes the ball to A-2. B-1 is standing in the frontcourt and tips the pass into the air near the division line. A-2 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt. Violation or not? Why or why not?

zm1283 wrote
I'd say no because Team A never had team control in the frontcourt. B's player was the last to touch before it went to the backcourt. However, if A caught it before it hit the floor, does it still have frontcourt status until it hits the floor?

I still say no BC violation here.

Rethink this:
Team A never lost team control; they had it in the backcourt and maintained it. B's bat does not change team control
A2 caught the ball while having frontcourt location.

zm1283

Snaqwells wrote
By rule, this is not a violation. The requirements are not met:
1. Team control by A.
2. Ball gains front court status (when tipped by B).
3. A is not the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
4. A2 is the first to touch the ball with BC status.

What is missing is that part where team A is the last to touch the ball "before" it gains backcourt status.

The recent NFHS interp, however, essentially states that #3 and #4 can happen at the same time.

Now, if the ball had hit another A player rather than B1 and then bounced into the BC, it's a violation.

mick wrote
Rethink this:
Team A never lost team control; they had it in the backcourt and maintained it. B's bat does not change team control
A2 caught the ball while having frontcourt location.

What do you say to the post above by Snaqwells then?

Adam

zm1283 wrote
What do you say to the post above by Snaqwells then?

I had a different play in my head. Mick's right (see my edited post above), this is a violation. For some reason, I didn't see that A had jumped from the FC, caught the ball, and landed in the BC.

This is always a violation, except in very specific circumstances which do not apply here.

With the play in question, #2 is met when A2 catches the ball with FC status. B1's tip is irrelevant.