The dog barks.

Rich

High School Basketball: The Barking Dog Play Is Idiotic, Effective

Adam

Hasn't the NFHS determined this to be unsporting?

Rich

Yeah, Struckhoff ruled it was an unsporting technical foul.

But still funny to watch on video.

Drizzle

I knew I read an interpretation somewhere that ruled this illegal, so I googled it.

Thanks to Nevadaref's post on the NFHS Board:

I have now found a better source of documentation for this ruling. The NFHS put it in print in the 2006-07 Basketball Preseason Guide on page 5.

"Play 1: Late in the game, A2 is inbounding the ball on the end line in his or her own frontcourt. In an effort to deceive the other team, A4 lines up near the sideline on his or her hands and knees and begins to simulate a barking dog. As the Team B players turn to look at A4, A2 throws the ball to A5 who makes an uncontested layup.
Ruling 1: The official shall stop play, wave off Team A's basket and issue an unsporting technical foul to A4. Team B will shoot two free throws and have the ball for a designated-spot throw-in at the division line opposite the table."

Adam

Interesting they want you to wave off the basket after it's been scored. You don't even do that for 6 on the court.

SAK

Im assuming that you would wave off the basket because it was discovered before the basket was scored although it may have caught the official by surprise and thus had a delay in the T. With 6 on the court if you catch it as the ball is on the way in and assess the tech then. The ball falls thru you would wave the basket off then. It would be immediatly when the T is recognized.

26 Year Gap

Ha! Ha! A Petco banner ad at the start of this thread!

mutantducky

ha ha, that video was great. I bet he volunteered to do it.

LDUB

Snaqwells wrote
Interesting they want you to wave off the basket after it's been scored.

There was no goal scored. The ball became dead when the player started acting like a dog.

mbyron

LDUB wrote
There was no goal scored. The ball became dead when the player started acting like a dog.

More explicitly: there was no goal because the ball became dead before the try.

But Snaq is still correct: we wave off the goal here just as we do for any foul or violation by the offense just prior to a try, and for the same reason.

Adam

LDUB wrote
There was no goal scored. The ball became dead when the player started acting like a dog.

I'm not so sure about this. If a team plays 6 and scores and we don't notice until after the score, the basket counts. Based on the interp above, that's not how it works for the barking dog play.

BillyMac

Snaqwells wrote
I'm not so sure about this. If a team plays 6 and scores and we don't notice until after the score, the basket counts. Based on the interp above, that's not how it works for the barking dog play.

Good point. Does the barking dog (player), or the whistle for the barking dog (player), cause the ball to become dead?

NFHS 6-7: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 5 An official’s whistle is blown.
ART. 7 A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs.

Snaqwells: Can you keep posting thought provoking posts like this for the next nine months? Please answer yes, and please keep them coming.

just another ref

BillyMac wrote
Good point. Does the barking dog (player), or the whistle for the barking dog (player), cause the ball to become dead?

NFHS 6-7: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 5 An official’s whistle is blown.
ART. 7 A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs.

If one rules that the barking dog action is unsporting conduct, this would be the foul. When the foul, such as it is, takes place, the ball is dead, not when the whistle blows.

LDUB

Snaqwells wrote
I'm not so sure about this. If a team plays 6 and scores and we don't notice until after the score, the basket counts. Based on the interp above, that's not how it works for the barking dog play.

It is the exact same rule. For 6 players the foul occurs when it is discovered an official; the ball becomes dead at that point (there are exceptions regarding tries and tries in flight). On the barking dog play the ball becomes dead when the player starts acting like a dog. When the case play says that the official must wave off the basket that means he must give the no score signal as he may be sounding the whistle very near to the time that the try is starting or while the try is in flight. The no score signal makes it clear that the goal didn't count.

In both situations the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.

LDUB

BillyMac wrote
Good point. Does the barking dog (player), or the whistle for the barking dog (player), cause the ball to become dead?

This is the exact same as any other foul. I don't know why you would think the whistle causes the ball to become dead. This is simple stuff; you even quoted the relevant rule...acting like a dog is a foul which is not a PC or TC foul.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
Does the barking dog (player), or the whistle for the barking dog (player), cause the ball to become dead?
NFHS 6-7: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
ART. 5 An official’s whistle is blown.
ART. 7 A foul, other than player- or team-control, occurs.

LDUB wrote
This is the exact same as any other foul. I don't know why you would think the whistle causes the ball to become dead. This is simple stuff; you even quoted the relevant rule...acting like a dog is a foul which is not a PC or TC foul.

I never thought the whistle caused the ball to become dead in this situation. Note the question mark at the end of my interrogative statement. It wasn't a declarative statement ending in a period. Further, it was a rhetorical question, implying that the answer was too obvious to require a reply. Also, sometimes the whistle does cause the ball to become dead, i.e., when there is an inadvertent whistle.

26 Year Gap

Just hope their team mascot is not a hydrant.:p

Adam

LDUB wrote
It is the exact same rule. For 6 players the foul occurs when it is discovered an official; the ball becomes dead at that point (there are exceptions regarding tries and tries in flight). On the barking dog play the ball becomes dead when the player starts acting like a dog. When the case play says that the official must wave off the basket that means he must give the no score signal as he may be sounding the whistle very near to the time that the try is starting or while the try is in flight. The no score signal makes it clear that the goal didn't count.

In both situations the ball becomes dead when the foul occurs.

I can go with this, it makes sense. The case play says the player scored; to me this is clear that the official's whistle came after the score. That said, it still makes sense, because if the officials catch the 6th player before the ball is in the air for a shot, the foul has occurred.

mbyron

Snaqwells wrote
I can go with this, it makes sense. The case play says the player scored; to me this is clear that the official's whistle came after the score. That said, it still makes sense, because if the officials catch the 6th player before the ball is in the air for a shot, the foul has occurred.

"Penalize when discovered." 😎

WIRef

I think common sense needs to be applied here. The reason the federation changed the rule to make it an unsporting technical foul was because team A is puposely trying to decieve Team B. And in this scenario, that is exactly what is happening. To give Team A the basket (if made) would partially defeat what is trying to be corrected. Granted, Team B still gets the benefit of the "T", but the basket was scored as the result of the unsporting act. If its me, hopefully I recognize this act fast enough to whistle before the shot goes up. Either way, I am taking away the basket. JMO.