T or no T! what do you think?

Adam

I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

Camron Rust

Depends on how high, how, and why.

Self frustration (follows airball or ball trown-away) will allow a little more tolerance. Who is the action directed at?

How high matters...no specific distance. 4' = nothing 40' = T. Everything else in between is judgement.

Ball ends up in his hands vs. player going to get ball makes a difference.

The whole picture has to be considered to get the right answer. A ball going 10' up dosn't get my attention unless it is directed at me or my partner.

BillyMac

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
Don't you just love Newton's Theory of Gravity?

It was a theory back in the olden days when you went to school. Now it's a scientific law.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., what was your favorite subject in school: Huntin', Gruntin', or Cave Painting?

TheOracle

Snaqwells wrote
I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

Scooby

Judgement call. There are lots of good refs on this board and it seems to come down to about 60% T and 40% no T. So I do not see a definitive answer. You have to decide.

Adam

TheOracle wrote
Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

Correct, IMO. I've been known to remind a player that he really doesn't want to make me have to decide whether or not it's a T.

cdaref

chrs_schuster wrote
I almost T but think to myself, do I want to possibly end game on T!

I remember as a younger official asking this of a senior official. He said to me that if I am worrying about how *I* am ending the game then I am already thinking about the situation in the wrong way. *I* dont end the game, the players do. I'm not responsible for what they do. I'm responsible for enforcing the rules while using appropriate judgment. He said, judge the act and if possible the intent (looking at you, showing you up, acting in anger, etc), but always allow for the appropriate passion of a tight and excellent athletic contest. I dont like the fact that he went over to get the ball to spike it. And if it was a big spike, that sounds like a whack. But the criteria in my mind are what he did and why, not whether or not *I* am worried about how *I* and the game. Being in those situations and making those tough calls is what they pay us to do and what we train to do. I'm not criticizing, just sharing some wisdom that helped me.

mbyron

BillyMac wrote
It was a theory back in the olden days when you went to school. Now it's a scientific law.

Not so: general relativity is the law of the land regarding gravity. Now, if only we could find a way to make it play nice with quantum mechanics... 😉

OHBBREF

TheOracle wrote
You have to decide what is best for you.

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

TheOracle

OHBBREF wrote
You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Once again we play word parsing. You are 100% correct. My point was you have to be OK with whatever you do.

"Best for the game" can be argued forever. I generally opt for people skills over excessively rigid rulebook enforcement. Many here would disagree with that. I am genuinely disappointed when I have to give a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct, because I always try and use my people skills to prevent it before it is necessary. But I don't judge others. You have to live with and embrace your own style.

Adam

TheOracle wrote
You have to decide what is best for you.

OHBBREF wrote
You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Dude, I think you're jumping when it's not necessary. What he's saying is that some officials will take care of this without a T, others will go with the T. There is a certain element of personal comfort level involved here, similar to how you deal with coaches.

pizanno

Late to the party, but here's my $0.02

Player A1 grabs ball and slams it about 10 feet in air!

I'm thinking since you used "slams" plus an apostrophe, it merited a T

Frustration? or pissed about no foul call?..not sure.

No matter

I almost T but think to myself, do I want to possibly end game on T!

Since when do we get to write the script?

Both teams are not going to state(last year by the way)

Absolutely not your concern.

I go over to him tell him not to do that again.

Do you mean "Kid...you got away with one", or "If you do that again in another game in the same situation, I won't call it again, so please don't to that"

I talked to a bunch a fellow officials some say Automatic T, some say good no call! What say you?

I say T, but more importantly, what did your Supervisor say?

TravelinMan

Quote:
I'm thinking since you used "slams" plus an apostrophe, it merited a T
Pizanno, fyi - that's exclamation point (!), not apostrophe (') 😀

Quote:
I go over to him tell him not to do that again.
T him, then talk to him so he doesn't commit a second T and get tossed. First T you couldn't warn him before it happened because you didn't know he would be that stupid to do that! (proper use of exclamation point) 😀

pizanno

Quote:
I'm thinking since you used "slams" plus an apostrophe, it merited a T
Pizanno, fyi - that's exclamation point (!), not apostrophe (') 😀

Thanks, Travelin. I guess I missed the point, or the period! 😉

TravelinMan

Touche Pizanno! Good to meet you. I can see you're a good sport.

OHBBREF

Snaqwells wrote
Dude, I think you're jumping when it's not necessary. What he's saying is that some officials will take care of this without a T, others will go with the T. There is a certain element of personal comfort level involved here, similar to how you deal with coaches.

No intention of talking down to or jumping on anyone.
I just spent an evening with two partners who were more worried about what was best for them and not the game. That as you can imagine
leads to some things that are not best for the game. So I may have over reacted but the terminology just struck me wrong.

I do not see much leeway for not calling a T here, this player did not have the ball when the play was blown dead, the player then picked up the ball and instead of handing it to an official, slammed the ball to the floor in such a manner that it went 10' in the air?

I can think of a couple of reasons the player might get whacked here, no matter who the player was upset with.

Adam

While I agree that the fact the player retrieved the ball prior to "slamming" it leads one to most likely call the T here; I still disagree that 10' is all that high. It doesn't take much effort at all to bounce it that high.

If this player already had the ball when the whistle was blown, then bounced it 10 feet, I don't think the T is so automatic.

Next question: did he catch it?

mick

Snaqwells wrote
I still disagree that 10' is all that high. It doesn't take much effort at all to bounce it that high.

YU.P.
Merely dropping it from 6' bounces it over 4'1". 🙂

OHBBREF

Snaqwells wrote
While I agree that the fact the player retrieved the ball prior to "slamming" it leads one to most likely call the T here; I still disagree that 10' is all that high.

I do not really care about the height either - in this particular case it is the fact that got or retrieved the ball and did not give the ball to an official he slammed it that creates the conduct issue where he is going to get whacked.

Snaqwells wrote
Next question: did he catch it?

Interesting point - But I doubt it would change my mind about whacking him because it was such an overt act.

Adam

What if he was walking to his bench when the ball was bouncing right in front of him, then he grabs it and "bounces" it.

I think the height does matter. If the original post had a player grabbing it and "bouncing it" rather than using the charged term "slam," no one would be crying for a T. So, what's the height threshold for a slam verses a bounce? If the OP had the player throwing it down and it only bounces 5 feet, is that a T?

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