Measurement

HL Clippenchain

I was wondering if any other crews get a new ball on a measurement that is short and outside the hashmarks? The new ball is then placed at the hash by marking with the chain.

Or does your crew just take the ball that was used on the previous play and have the white hat carry it over in one hand and the mark on the chain with the other hand?

Thanks for the help and advice.
HLC

JugglingReferee

For games where we have multiple game balls, yes we do. We leave the ball used to do the measurement on the ground, and the new ball is used for the next play. It's rare that we'll have a ball boy in most HS games, though.

So in most games, yes, the WH will carry the ball over wit the chain for the next down placement.

In the university games that I do, naturally we have multiple game balls and we follow the full procedure.

MJT

Same as JR. HS usually one ball used per team, so carry it over, but in my college games we leave the one and have a new one placed.

Warrenkicker

I only do high school and we take the original ball from its spot outside the inbounds lines.

But we also have two game balls for each team. That way we can change out balls if they get wet or muddy. We can also get another ball if we get a deep pass that goes OOB and get back to the game more quickly. The biggest time saver is on field goals and trys. The ball boys set one ball right behind the goal post and go to catch the other ball. We take the second while they chase the kicked ball.

bisonlj

We usually have at least 3 or 4 balls for each team (some more some less). Each team also provides a ball boy and some are better than others. Most are 12-14 year old boys so their focus can tend to wander. A good ball boy sure helps with the flow of the game though. We swap balls when it makes sense...wet/muddy, long incomplete pass, field goal/extra point. We usually carry the ball in on measurements but it doesn't become an issue often. We use the mechanic of starting each new series on a hash (if possible) so we know if the line to gain was reached if the ball reached a hash. This has greatly reduced the number of measurements we have. When we get a field without hashes (only once this year), we know we are going to have some measurements that night.

Theisey

bisonlj wrote
We usually have at least 3 or 4 balls for each team (some more some less). Each team also provides a ball boy and some are better than others. Most are 12-14 year old boys so their focus can tend to wander. A good ball boy sure helps with the flow of the game though. We swap balls when it makes sense...wet/muddy, long incomplete pass, field goal/extra point. We usually carry the ball in on measurements but it doesn't become an issue often. We use the mechanic of starting each new series on a hash (if possible) so we know if the line to gain was reached if the ball reached a hash. This has greatly reduced the number of measurements we have. When we get a field without hashes (only once this year), we know we are going to have some measurements that night.

"HASH" marks are only placed on every 5 yardline. So what you do is to spot the ball on one of the yardline markers if present. I think that is fine but only on a change of possession should this be done. That's my opinion and the opinion of many others.

We've had eight games so far and only one measurement and is with leaving the ball where it lies after every first down. It's not a big deal evenon the poorest of markings on the field.

bisonlj

Theisey wrote
"HASH" marks are only placed on every 5 yardline. So what you do is to spot the ball on one of the yardline markers if present. I think that is fine but only on a change of possession should this be done. That's my opinion and the opinion of many others.

We've had eight games so far and only one measurement and is with leaving the ball where it lies after every first down. It's not a big deal evenon the poorest of markings on the field.

It's also the opinion of every major college conference and NFL so I'm going to go with it. That's where we learned the mechanic.

It's only a difference of a half yard at the beginning of the series. The times you don't do it is when the offense barely picks up a first down or if they are inside the 10. Yes...I mean the yardline markers. I think everyone understood what I meant.

Theisey

Do what you want, but I doubt its the opinion of every college conference in the great USA. I know of several that do not do this on a regular basis. I could care less what the NFL does. They are two levels of separation from high school ball. But as I just said, do what your area tells you, right wrong or indifferent.

As far as the hash mark correction goes, I had to bring it up as I don't know for sure you are a new official or an official at the end of your career, but you were using incorrect statements of definitions. I expect to be corrected if I improperly use a definition.

SethPDX

Theisey wrote
As far as the hash mark correction goes, I had to bring it up as I don't know for sure you are a new official or an official at the end of your career, but you were using incorrect statements of definitions. I expect to be corrected if I improperly use a definition.

What's a hash mark?
I only do baseball/softball, but I'm pretty sure they're called inbound lines. 🙂

tjones1

SethPDX wrote
What's a hash mark?
I only do baseball/softball, but I'm pretty sure they're called inbound lines. 🙂

http://www.goallineathletics.com/hsFieldLayout.html

SethPDX

Reeeaaaallly. I didn't know the book actually called them that. Thanks.

bisonlj

tjones1 wrote
http://www.goallineathletics.com/hsFieldLayout.html

So I guess I was using the right terminology. When we walk on the field, one of our first comments is "Great...they have hash marks on the field."

Everyone I've talked to that works in major college football (and small college for that matter) uses the hash mark technique. Many of the HS crews in our area are using it now as well since we attend clinics put on my these officials. I was white hat at a JV game yesterday and it saved us on 3 or 4 measurements.

Use whatever mechanic you want but I know we've become much more efficient since implementing this a couple years ago. Once we explain it to the coaches they are impressed by our little "trick".

Theisey

SethPDX wrote
What's a hash mark?
I only do baseball/softball, but I'm pretty sure they're called inbound lines. 🙂

Correct, hash=inbounds lines

right from rule 1:

e. Inbounds lines “a series of hash marks” should be 24 inches in length and 4 inches in width and shall be located 53 feet, 4 inches from and parallel with each sideline dividing the field of play longitudinally in thirds. The inbounds lines shall be marked so that each 5-yard line bisects the hash mark.
NOTES:
1. Game administration may place on the field of play, at the inbounds lines, yardline extensions that should be 24 inches in length and 4 inches in width.
...

I underlined the word parallel.
What BisonBJ is referring to are what the rule calss "yardline extensions"
The two markings are not the same.

Ed Hickland

HL Clippenchain wrote
I was wondering if any other crews get a new ball on a measurement that is short and outside the hashmarks? The new ball is then placed at the hash by marking with the chain.

Or does your crew just take the ball that was used on the previous play and have the white hat carry it over in one hand and the mark on the chain with the other hand?

Thanks for the help and advice.
HLC

For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

BulldogMcC

Ed Hickland wrote
For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

They cannot request a change, but we change the ball anytime it becomes dead outside the numbers(nine yard marks) with a ball of the same composition. It really speeds up game administration when the wing is spotting the ball and the BJ is getting a new ball from the side line.

Bob M.

Ed Hickland wrote
For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

REPLY: Ed, I don't believe that's quite what the rule says. It says that a team may designate a ball to use at the start of a series, but it never says that the officials are not allowed to substitute a ball. What do you do when there's a long incomplete pass downfield? Do you wait for the BJ or wing to retrieve it and relay it back to the umpire at the previous spot?

If at all possible, we will get a new ball when the measurement shows that they were short of the LTG. Reason is in case the chain link marking position of the ball is pulled from the R's hand as he walks to the inbounds line, the old ball at the spot can be used once more as a reference point.

Ed Hickland

Bob M. wrote
REPLY: Ed, I don't believe that's quite what the rule says. It says that a team may designate a ball to use at the start of a series, but it never says that the officials are not allowed to substitute a ball. What do you do when there's a long incomplete pass downfield? Do you wait for the BJ or wing to retrieve it and relay it back to the umpire at the previous spot?

If at all possible, we will get a new ball when the measurement shows that they were short of the LTG. Reason is in case the chain link marking position of the ball is pulled from the R's hand as he walks to the inbounds line, the old ball at the spot can be used once more as a reference point.

NFHS Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A basically states you must use the same ball for an entire series and considers the try an extension of the series.

Rich

Ed Hickland wrote
For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

Huh? THEY cannot substitute a ball, but we most certainly can. You chase long incomplete passes downfield instead of getting a ball from the ball boy? What if the weather's wet, you never bring in a dry football?

Ed Hickland

RichMSN wrote
Huh? THEY cannot substitute a ball, but we most certainly can. You chase long incomplete passes downfield instead of getting a ball from the ball boy? What if the weather's wet, you never bring in a dry football?

The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

Rich

Ed Hickland wrote
The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

Yup. All of those are places where the TEAM requests a change. Again, I can change it at any time. Nothing stops ME from doing so. We do it all the time, when the ball is incomplete deep.