USSSA, Bat Stinger

Bandit

Could someone please refer me to the USSSA ruling that prevents players from having a so called "bat stinger" on the knob of the bat. My daughter has one. It does not compromise the 90 degree angle of the knob, it does not "alter" the bat. I have no problem with her not using it I just cannot find the rule the umpire is speaking of. And with the # of rules these guys are "adjusting" as I was told on at least two other occasions tonight I'm sorta believing this might be another one of their "adjustments". I've done a lot of umpiring and have yet to "adjust" the rules.

NCASAUmp

Okay, I haven't called U-Trip in about 13 or 14 years, and I only call ASA. However, their rulebook is available online at the following address:

http://www.usssa.com/sports/home.asp?Sport=17

Go to the bottom, and you'll see the link to download their rulebook.

The top of page 13 (Rule 2-2-B) says...

The knob portion must be welded, or mechanically attached to the bat.

Sounds like USSSA's intent is that the knob must be permanently fixed, and those bat stinger knobs are out. Personally, I couldn't agree more.

Bandit

"Sounds like USSSA's intent is that the knob must be permanently fixed, and those bat stinger knobs are out. Personally, I couldn't agree more."

But the stinger is not a "knob" the "knob" is still there. May I ask why you agree with this? What possible danger does this $2.95 piece of rubber pose?

IRISHMAFIA

Sounds like you are referring to a "Power Pad"

http://www.loadedbases.com/powpadbatpro.html

Don't know about U-trip. A few years back, this was an "approved" attachment, but apparently, it is no longer as adding anything to the knob other than two layers of tape is considered illegal.

NCASAUmp

Bandit wrote
"Sounds like USSSA's intent is that the knob must be permanently fixed, and those bat stinger knobs are out. Personally, I couldn't agree more."

But the stinger is not a "knob" the "knob" is still there. May I ask why you agree with this? What possible danger does this $2.95 piece of rubber pose?

I don't want anything on a bat that isn't permanently fixed. Swinging a bat is an aggressive motion, and anything that could potentially fly off (even if it is extremely unlikely) should be out. Period.

NCASAUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Sounds like you are referring to a "Power Pad"

http://www.loadedbases.com/powpadbatpro.html

Don't know about U-trip. A few years back, this was an "approved" attachment, but apparently, it is no longer as adding anything to the knob other than two layers of tape is considered illegal.

Mike, are you speaking ASA? The debate over these "knobs" has gone back and forth among different umpires, and I'd love to have something I can reference. I've scoured over Rule 3, Section 1 over and over, and I must be missing it.

IRISHMAFIA

NCASAUmp wrote
Mike, are you speaking ASA? The debate over these "knobs" has gone back and forth among different umpires, and I'd love to have something I can reference. I've scoured over Rule 3, Section 1 over and over, and I must be missing it.

Yes, ASA. But it has been quite a few years since it was mentioned in the rule book.

NCASAUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Yes, ASA. But it has been quite a few years since it was mentioned in the rule book.

And I wish I could find what you're referring to, but 3-1-I says...

The Knob may be molded, lathed, welded, or permanently fastened to the bat, and may be taped as long as there is no violation of this section.

So since these things are rubber, they're molded to the size of the knob. Thus, they meet the requirement. *grumble*

When's the next rule change committee, Mike? 😉

IRISHMAFIA

NCASAUmp wrote
And I wish I could find what you're referring to, but 3-1-I says...

So since these things are rubber, they're molded to the size of the knob. Thus, they meet the requirement. *grumble*

When's the next rule change committee, Mike? 😉

No, they are not necessarily "molded" to the size of the knob. The presence of this piece expands the size if the knob. Nor do they necessarily fit tight on the safety knob.

If you read 3.1.I, you will see: The diameter of the flat region of the Knob adjacent to the Grip (D) shall be at least 0.1250 inches greather than the bat Hnadle diameter including the Grip (H). The angle of the Flat reion of the Knob adjacent to the Grip (B) shall be perpendicular to the center line of the bat (A) within ten (10) degrees.

Note how the portion on the top (toward the barrel) is grooved and rounded. When applied, there is no "flat" surface, nor do I believe there is a perpendicular angle which persists for 1/8 of an inch.

You will also note that in 3.1.J, it is noted that the bat characteristics must be permanently fixed at the time of the manufacture eacept as otherwise specfically provided for in Rule 3.1.

The ONLY specifically noted manners in which anything may be added to the bat is given as an approved safety grip (manufactured or tape), the allowance to provide a "lasered" ID mark (or an engraved mark on the knob only of a metal bat).

I don't see any allowance to add anything to the grip with the exception of two layers of tape as long as the bat meets all other spec of the rules.

Thus, I cannot see how this is permitted based on rule 3.1 without some type of action on ASA's behalf to specifically approve this specific piece of equipment.

NCASAUmp

IRISHMAFIA wrote
No, they are not necessarily "molded" to the size of the knob. The presence of this piece expands the size if the knob. Nor do they necessarily fit tight on the safety knob.

If you read 3.1.I, you will see: The diameter of the flat region of the Knob adjacent to the Grip (D) shall be at least 0.1250 inches greather than the bat Hnadle diameter including the Grip (H). The angle of the Flat reion of the Knob adjacent to the Grip (B) shall be perpendicular to the center line of the bat (A) within ten (10) degrees.

Note how the portion on the top (toward the barrel) is grooved and rounded. When applied, there is no "flat" surface, nor do I believe there is a perpendicular angle which persists for 1/8 of an inch.

You will also note that in 3.1.J, it is noted that the bat characteristics must be permanently fixed at the time of the manufacture eacept as otherwise specfically provided for in Rule 3.1.

The ONLY specifically noted manners in which anything may be added to the bat is given as an approved safety grip (manufactured or tape), the allowance to provide a "lasered" ID mark (or an engraved mark on the knob only of a metal bat).

I don't see any allowance to add anything to the grip with the exception of two layers of tape as long as the bat meets all other spec of the rules.

Thus, I cannot see how this is permitted based on rule 3.1 without some type of action on ASA's behalf to specifically approve this specific piece of equipment.

That's exactly the kind of reference I was looking for. At the risk of being OOO, those d@mned things are gone. 😉

JefferMC

NCASAUmp wrote
That's exactly the kind of reference I was looking for. At the risk of being OOO, those d@mned things are gone. 😉

Sounds OOO to me. Don't see any potential safety risk.

Dakota

JefferMC wrote
Sounds OOO to me. Don't see any potential safety risk.

Batter lets the bat slip out of her hands on the swing and the bat flies directly into the face of a fielder. And you allowed illegal equipment on the bat handle.

1-800-LAWYERS

Bandit

Ok I'm confused and as a parent, past player and umpire. I realy believe I'm starting to understand why we have some "problems" with parents, coaches and players....I have another post on the board about not calling the pitching rules.....In that post I have received threads about how we DO NOT follow the book or rules "because they are 10 year olds". Here while the rule may not be "claear-cut" we scream about the potential of lawsuits. What happened to simply folowing the rules AS WRITTEN and ENJOY the game. I happen to know some of the individuals that have the responsibility of writing the rules and they certainly don't take their jobs for granted.

Dakota

Bandit wrote
Ok I'm confused and as a parent, past player and umpire. I realy believe I'm starting to understand why we have some "problems" with parents, coaches and players....I have another post on the board about not calling the pitching rules.....In that post I have received threads about how we DO NOT follow the book or rules "because they are 10 year olds". Here while the rule may not be "claear-cut" we scream about the potential of lawsuits. What happened to simply folowing the rules AS WRITTEN and ENJOY the game. I happen to know some of the individuals that have the responsibility of writing the rules and they certainly don't take their jobs for granted.

Amazing... I don't recall screaming. I don't call U-trip, but ASA is very clear - if they have not approved the equipment, it is not approved.

As to your other thread, I clearly did NOT say adjust the rules based on age. I did say rules ARE adjusted by rec leagues and tournaments. Except for championship play, local rules can and usually are in force.

Safety issues are in an entirely different category from the technical mechanics of pitching.

Dholloway1962

Dakota wrote
Safety issues are in an entirely different category from the technical mechanics of pitching.

Agree totally Dakota.

One other thing...what the heck does OOO stand for?

NCASAUmp

Dholloway1962 wrote
Agree totally Dakota.

One other thing...what the heck does OOO stand for?

Overly Officiating Official 😎

JefferMC

I do note that NFHS specifically allows them...

IRISHMAFIA

JefferMC wrote
I do note that NFHS specifically allows them...

And ASA does not.

I received this from an ASA Deputy Supervisor of Umpires:

Thanks for your inquiry into the Power Pad.
This item is in fact NOT legal. It violates Rule 3, Section 1 and does not allow for a 90 degree angle from the bat to the knob.

Thanks