Good officiating?

Back In The Saddle

In another thread we got talking about how often coaches comment about "poor officiating." So here's my question: What do coaches truly consider to be good officiating?

Besides when every call goes their way, which is a given.

deecee

This comes down to whether or not the coach is a reasonable person. I have had coaches say that they thought me and my crew had a tough game (read not to good) and they had examples why they thought that, and I respected that and listened and if necessary implement something. And I have had coaches said we had a great game and offered a reason why.

In either case I appreciate the feedback. However if a coach just says "you did a good job" and walks away, all I do is respond with a thank you, but I dont take it seriously. Why? Because if he said "you did a bad job" and walked away I would say thank you as well and not take it seriously. If I want to accept the praise then I have to accept the criticism, and in these cases I dont want either.

Bearfanmike20

Back In The Saddle wrote
In another thread we got talking about how often coaches comment about "poor officiating." So here's my question: What do coaches truly consider to be good officiating?

Besides when every call goes their way, which is a given.

Ive been complimented by coaches....

One game sticks out... it was a very physical game and the coaches were complaining alot... the problem I was having is that yes.. alot of the kids were falling down but most of it was on thier own.. but.. there were a few calls that could have been made that maybe were not...

I said to my partner at half time "lets tighten this up".

I set the tone right away the second half and the rest went smoothly. The kids stopped flopping on thier own too.

After the game the coach thanked me for taking control.

I know that I should have done that in the first half to begin with.. a rookie mistake that I'm still rectifying, but... at least it was a compliment.

Also have been complimented for my hustle. 😀

archangel

deecee wrote
However if a coach just says "you did a good job" and walks away, all I do is respond with a thank you, but I dont take it seriously. Why? Because if he said "you did a bad job" and walked away I would say thank you as well and not take it seriously. If I want to accept the praise then I have to accept the criticism, and in these cases I dont want either.

Well, trying to always think positive, I'm going to believe that a "good job" comment means just that, then forget about it and move on....
After about 25 yrs of playing mens softball, and 8 yrs of coaching sons in basketball, I never told the official "good job" if I didnt mean it. When I felt the official wasnt on top of his game, so to speak, I didnt say anything to him at game end. But I see your point.
Back to the OP? Each coach is different in; background, experience, age, team ability, their record, his bb job pressure, so--this question is unanswerable...

CoachP

Back In The Saddle wrote
In another thread we got talking about how often coaches comment about "poor officiating." So here's my question: What do coaches truly consider to be good officiating?

Besides when every call goes their way, which is a given.

When they are hustling to their positions.
When they are in position all night during NON action time.
i.e. pre game, time outs, scorers table checking books, foul reporting...
When I see they are giving me their best effort and following their mechanics, I know they are "in the game" and they'll get the benefit of the doubt on all judgement calls against my team.....
Presentation...always looking the part.
If 1-4 are met, rules knowledge and application are probably already a given

biz

As a coach, I'm looking for two things from the officials....a strong knowledge of the rules (unfortunately, brother and sister officials, this one is lacking far too often) and Consistency.

I understand, as an official, that there are many shades of gray in officiating basketball, and all I try for as an official is to be consistent from the tip to the final horn and that's all I ask for from the officials who call the games I coach in.

grunewar

When the coach of the losing team comes up to me, or me and my partner and says "good game" or "you guys did a good job", that always means a litle bit more to me than hearing it from than the winning coach. I usually just say "thank you."

Man In Blue

biz wrote
As a coach, I'm looking for two things from the officials....a strong knowledge of the rules (unfortunately, brother and sister officials, this one is lacking far too often) and Consistency.

I understand, as an official, that there are many shades of gray in officiating basketball, and all I try for as an official is to be consistent from the tip to the final horn and that's all I ask for from the officials who call the games I coach in.

That one is the toughest for me as an offical to understand. Just because I call an charge on one end does it mean I have to call a charge on the other end to be consistant?

What does consistant mean to you?

JRutledge

Man In Blue wrote
That one is the toughest for me as an offical to understand. Just because I call an charge on one end does it mean I have to call a charge on the other end to be consistant?

What does consistant mean to you?

It means call things against their opponent and do not call anything against my team. 😉

Peace

JoeTheRef

biz wrote
As a coach, I'm looking for two things from the officials....a strong knowledge of the rules (unfortunately, brother and sister officials, this one is lacking far too often) and Consistency.

I understand, as an official, that there are many shades of gray in officiating basketball, and all I try for as an official is to be consistent from the tip to the final horn and that's all I ask for from the officials who call the games I coach in.

IMO, if coaches knew half the rules of the game, then they would realize that the officials know more than they think we know.

crazy voyager

My excperience is that coaches think you're a good official when you communicate with them and explain.
I once called a game in wich we had the dreaded Blarge (I was trail with the charge and L had the block).
I was 100% sure of it and he didn't have the best angle so we went with my call. Coach said
"but how did she manage to get both feet on the floor to draw a charge?"
Me: "she doesn't have to"
"coach":...
me:" I'll explain it to you after the game ok?"
He was fine with that, after the game I explained the principle of maintaining a legal gaurding position to him and the fact that a player doesn't even need one foot on the floor in order to take a charge.
My evaluator (who apperently was a friend of the coach) just smiled when I told him...
That coach liked me and I liked to call his game becuse we came along.
The coaches I don't like and the ones that don't like me are usually the ones who either have a bad day (or if I have a bad day) or the ones that arn't intrested in getting along.

But then there are offcourse other aspects, but I think communication is often underestimated...

Rufus

Man In Blue wrote
That one is the toughest for me as an offical to understand. Just because I call an charge on one end does it mean I have to call a charge on the other end to be consistant?

What does consistant mean to you?

One of the best pre-games I ever sat in was during my first year officiating. We had finished up the JV game and the varsity guys were in the locker room going over pre-game stuff. One was a veteran official and the other a newly promoted varsity guy who was very eager. He nodded his head at everything the veteran was saying and finally wrapped up the meeting by saying "And let's be consistent!"

The veteran paused for a moment, looked his partner in the eyes, and said "No, let's be right. If we're consistently wrong we're not getting out of here alive!"

just another ref

I am reminded of a quote from True Grit. When asked if he needed a good lawyer, Ned Pepper (Robert Duvall) replied, "I need a good judge." A good judge, in this case, meant one who would let him stay alive. Too many coaches, if their team is not alive, equate this to bad officiating. Coaches, and others, see officials as nothing more than the bearers of bad news. There are exceptions, but with many coaches this overriding "the ref is a bad guy" mentality is further clouded by marginal rule knowledge and an obvious lack of objectivity on individual calls. How do we expect to be perceived as good, when viewed through such a hindrance of the clear picture?

BillyMac

just another ref wrote
I am reminded of a quote from True Grit. When asked if he needed a good lawyer, Ned Pepper replied, "I need a good judge."

"Fill your hands, you son of a b*t*h."

tomegun

biz wrote
As a coach, I'm looking for two things from the officials....a strong knowledge of the rules (unfortunately, brother and sister officials, this one is lacking far too often) and Consistency.

I understand, as an official, that there are many shades of gray in officiating basketball, and all I try for as an official is to be consistent from the tip to the final horn and that's all I ask for from the officials who call the games I coach in.

I hear you loud and clear concerning consistency, but there is something you and all other coaches should realize. Stop worrying about the foul count 3 minutes into the game! If a coach feels like the fouls were lopsided at least wait until nature can take its course. There have been so many times when play has dictated a cluster of fouls for one team and a cluster for the other team later on. The end result is fouls that aren't even but reflect the defensive play of both teams. This should be our goal anyway: a foul count in line with how the teams played defense. Getting uptight about the foul count in the first 4 minutes is dumb.

budjones05

If you want to know how you did, just ask the coach that just won.

JRutledge

tomegun wrote
I hear you loud and clear concerning consistency, but there is something you and all other coaches should realize. Stop worrying about the foul count 3 minutes into the game! If a coach feels like the fouls were lopsided at least wait until nature can take its course. There have been so many times when play has dictated a cluster of fouls for one team and a cluster for the other team later on. The end result is fouls that aren't even but reflect the defensive play of both teams. This should be our goal anyway: a foul count in line with how the teams played defense. Getting uptight about the foul count in the first 4 minutes is dumb.

I would take that a step further. Many officials do not care what coaches think about foul counts at any time of the game. I mainly concern myself with foul counts to know if we are close to a bonus situation. Outside of that if a coach complains, it is not going to change anything. Actually, most complaining coaches engage in means little or nothing but takes away their credibility.

ranjo

biz wrote
As a coach, I'm looking for two things from the officials....a strong knowledge of the rules (unfortunately, brother and sister officials, this one is lacking far too often) and Consistency.

I understand, as an official, that there are many shades of gray in officiating basketball, and all I try for as an official is to be consistent from the tip to the final horn and that's all I ask for from the officials who call the games I coach in.

IMO When the players play consistently, the officials have a much better chance at calling the game consistently. The inverse of this is also true.:cool:

Andy

just another ref wrote
...Too many coaches, if their team is not alive, equate this to bad officiating. Coaches, and others, see officials as nothing more than the bearers of bad news. There are exceptions, but with many coaches this overriding "the ref is a bad guy" mentality is further clouded by marginal rule knowledge and an obvious lack of objectivity on individual calls...

Just to add to this point, let me relay something I was told by a D1 official several years ago:

D1 coaches, for the most part, are control freaks. They have control of a multi-million dollar budget, control of a large arena and practice facility, and control of the lives of those 12 or so kids playing for them. About the only thing they don't have control of is those three guys running around their court in striped shirts. This drives them crazy and they are willing to go to almost any length to try to gain control to their advantage.

When you look at it from that angle, it's no wonder that D1 coaches think the officiating is uniformally bad across the board.

ronny mulkey

BITS,

I know that this doesn't apply to all coaches but I'll say it anyway. Coaches aren't the best judges of officials during their own specific game. They just can't be objective and they can't separate their own bias toward/against their team. A foul against their team becomes "we teach them to block out". A travel aganst their team becomes "we teach that move". A missed layup becomes "if things weren't so physical, she would have made that". It's almost like a call goes against their ability to coach.

If they are watching a game not involving their team, they have a little more insight than a fan. Other than that, there is nothing in their background that makes them qualified to even rate an official.

With that being said, we have a very successful experience with coaches becoming officials after they tire of coaching. They do understand the game.

Mulk