Correctable Error

kmw

Here we go....

A1 is fouled. A inbounds ball and then ball is stolen by B3- A coach is yelling at me that we missed the bonus - team b subsequently scores and I kill the clock. Yes, we should have shot the bonus. Error is correctable since it was found before the first dead ball becomes live - we go and shoot bonus. But this is where my partner and I have different opinions. IMO, a) we shoot bonus with no one on lane and then A gets the ball on the baseline in backcourt since I killed the clock after B made shot- b) my partner feels strongly that we shoot bonus with teams on the lane and play on from that point. I know that the basket by Team B counts no matter what. Whats correct ruling?

Second - A coach is upset because I didn't kill the clock right away during fast break. I have nothing to look at because I am trail and scoreboard is behind me and table is doing nothing... nothing - I explain that I waited to get a look at scoreboard. Whats the best thing to say here? IMO, the scorer/timer failed (after I failed for not noticing bonus) and they could have sounded horn...

With that said - if it wasn't correctable Team A coach would lose a timeout, right?

BillyMac

Since there was a change of possession here, I believe that we go to the point of interuption. A's ball for a throwin with the privlege of running the end line.

My best guess. Your right. Partner's wrong.

rainmaker

Kim -- you were right about no one on the lane, and go poi. B's steal constitutes a change of possession, which means go poi.

Regarding what to say to the coach, I think the best approach is something to the effect that you'd have given team A the courtesy of waiting til their play was through if the situation had been reversed.

btw, good job handling a correctable error. Them's tricky business!

kmw

rainmaker wrote
Kim -- you were right about no one on the lane, and go poi. B's steal constitutes a change of possession, which means go poi.

Regarding what to say to the coach, I think the best approach is something to the effect that you'd have given team A the courtesy of waiting til their play was through if the situation had been reversed.

btw, good job handling a correctable error. Them's tricky business!

Definitely one of those nights - we had a intentional foul, player technical, a fan taking pix with a flash (home coach wanted announcement made) my partner had a fan removed early in game - All in a BJV contest.

1 more and I am done!

🙂

rainmaker

kmw wrote
1 more and I am done! 🙂

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, will you be jonesing in a week or two?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIbp5C-5WXM

BoomerSooner

BillyMac wrote
Since there was a change of possession here, I believe that we go to the point of interuption. B's ball for a throwin with the privlege of running the end line.

My best guess. Your right. Partner's wrong.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, the point of interuption was B making the layup after the stolen pass. Thus A will get the ball and can run the end line.

As far as A's coach being upset, the question at hand is would he have been as up set if his team hadn't thrown the ball away and had scored a 2 or 3 point FG before play was stopped to correct the error? Had this happen in a game and let's just say its difficult to explain to coach B why the other team is getting a chance at essentially a 5 point play. Unfortunately that is how the correctable error rule works but on the other hand it was his home scorer that miscounted the team fouls.

BillyMac

rainmaker wrote
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, will you be jonesing in a week or two?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIbp5C-5WXM

Rainmaker: Thanks for finding this. I actually still have the 45 rpm record. I didn't know that there was animation to go with the song. The song is by Cheech and Chong, but the animation reminds me of the old Bill Cosby "Fat Albert" cartoons.

Note to young officials: A 45 rpm record is a black plastic disk, about twice the size of a modern CD, that has grooves in it, that are converted by a needle into sounds, on a device called a record player. It contains one song on one side, and must be flipped over, to play the second song, on the flip side.

Mark Padgett

My favorite Cheech and Chong line was when Tommy Chong is walking down a street and some guy comes up to him to see if he wants to buy a watch. Chong replies, "Oh no thanks, man. I'm not into time". 😀

Indianaref

BillyMac wrote
It contains one song on one side, and must be flipped over, to play the second song, on the flip side.

The second song always sucked.

Nevadaref

BoomerSooner wrote
Just to make sure everyone is on the same page, the point of interuption was B making the layup after the stolen pass. Thus A will get the ball and can run the end line.

As far as A's coach being upset, the question at hand is would he have been as up set if his team hadn't thrown the ball away and had scored a 2 or 3 point FG before play was stopped to correct the error? Had this happen in a game and let's just say its difficult to explain to coach B why the other team is getting a chance at essentially a 5 point play. Unfortunately that is how the correctable error rule works but on the other hand it was his home scorer that miscounted the team fouls.

Tell the coach that hollering at you during the play isn't the proper procedure. Then inform him of the proper method to handle it. He needs to go to the scorer's table and request a time-out to rectify a correctable error. The table should sound the horn at the next dead ball. The error will still be correctable.

An official should never stop a play in progress just because a coach is yelling about something, unless the whistle is for a T on the coach. 😮

BTW had there not been a steal and play had been stopped with A still in possession then the players would line up as normal for the FTs, but a made goal by A would indeed create a double whammy.

SmokeEater

BoomerSooner wrote
As far as A's coach being upset, the question at hand is would he have been as up set if his team hadn't thrown the ball away and had scored a 2 or 3 point FG before play was stopped to correct the error? Had this happen in a game and let's just say its difficult to explain to coach B why the other team is getting a chance at essentially a 5 point play. Unfortunately that is how the correctable error rule works but on the other hand it was his home scorer that miscounted the team fouls.

If I am not mistaken in FIBA rules had this been the situation and A was able to score a basket before the mistake was corrected, then the Free Throws are ignored and the basket is counted. No opportunity to get the extra points on an error.

I'm just thinking out loud here so don't be upset I am refering to FIBA....😉

chartrusepengui

You did well. You can't kill the clock because the coach tells you it should have been bonus throw(s). And you shouldn't kill the clock even if you look up and see a 7 by teams fouls. Scoreboards can be wrong. Correct procedure is to allow the play to continue - then whistle just as you did. Same coach would probrably complained if the situation had been reversed and you stopped his fast break attempt. Good job!

Dan_ref

BillyMac wrote
Note to young officials: A 45 rpm record is a black plastic disk, about twice the size of a modern CD, that has grooves in it, that are converted by a needle into sounds, on a device called a record player. It contains one song on one side, and must be flipped over, to play the second song, on the flip side.

And I *still* can't get over that I don't have to rewind the DVD before taking it back to Blockbuster.

Billy I'm betting you're amazed by that too! 🙂

CoachP

kmw wrote
a fan taking pix with a flash (home coach wanted announcement made)
🙂

What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

kmw

CoachP wrote
What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

no problem on my end - had home coach take it up with his game management - I am staying out of that one unless photoman is on baseline and he gets in my way. And certainly, that was the least of my problems that night.

BillyMac

Dan_ref wrote
And I *still* can't get over that I don't have to rewind the DVD before taking it back to Blockbuster.

So you make the poor kid working part-time at Blockbuster rewind it for you.

BillyMac

CoachP wrote
What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

Not true any more. A few weeks ago, a local newspaper sports photographer showed me his new, high speed, SLR, digital camera. With no flash, he photographed the players in the layup line before my game, and showed me the results. Real stop action. No blurred image. And, again, no flash. I believe he said that it cost him a few thousand dollars.

Dan_ref

BillyMac wrote
So you make the poor kid working part-time at Blockbuster rewind it for you.

They charge me the $2, I pay it. The kid should be thanking me!

😛

Camron Rust

CoachP wrote
What was the problem there? All sports photos need flash indoors.

Not true...there are a few indoor sports where flash is strictly prohibited (e.g. gymnastics). For others, you're too far for flash to be of much use. (For compact cameras...maybe 15 feet. For DSLR's with external strobes, maybe 50 ft.). If it was a fan, chances are the flash was on a compact camera and completely useless.

Also, flash often imparts a very flat and harsh look to photos. For subjects in the photo at different distances, it lights them up completely differently...one too bright, the other too dark.

To get a fast enough shutter to freeze the action with available light, it helps to have a modern DSLR that can do high ISO without encountering too much noise and also have a fast (large aperture) lens.

Some examples of what can be done without flash...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/example-images.htm

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=167&topic_id=18225&mesg_id=18225&page=

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=26548248

CoachP

Camron Rust wrote
Not true...there are a few indoor sports where flash is strictly prohibited (e.g. gymnastics). For others, you're too far for flash to be of much use. (For compact cameras...maybe 15 feet. For DSLR's with external strobes, maybe 50 ft.). If it was a fan, chances are the flash was on a compact camera and completely useless.

Also, flash often imparts a very flat and harsh look to photos. For subjects in the photo at different distances, it lights them up completely differently...one too bright, the other too dark.

To get a fast enough shutter to freeze the action with available light, it helps to have a modern DSLR that can do high ISO without encountering too much noise and also have a fast (large aperture) lens.

Some examples of what can be done without flash...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/example-images.htm

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=167&topic_id=18225&mesg_id=18225&page=

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=26548248

Thanks for the lesson.....but, my degree is in Portrait/Commercial Photography. And I'll change my comment just for you.😉

"Most" sports photos by mortals need flash indoors.

The OP, I'm sure isn't a SI photog with unlimited resources.

The hockey shot, while nice, is done with a $5k camera and a $2K lens in a controlled "studio" setting. Meaning lights, actors, cameras and I'm sure, hundreds of takes. And let's not forget the $9k F2.8 300 mm lenses for the football games.:eek:

So are todays cameras capable? Yes. Is the average person (or even an above average) in the stands with a flash at a HS/MS game holding $7k worth of equipment in his/her hands? Doubt it.

When I shoot a game, I want as much pure light as possible. Every gym is different (mercury, sodium vapor, flourescent, etc.) so I "bounce" a white lightning off the ceilings. No harsh light, no flat flash effect, the whole gym is lit, no funny colors that I have to sit and photoshop all night long and the color is rich.....and NO ONE is even aware a flash is going off..