Roger before Congress

dash_riprock

For me, the pathetic part was that Congress somehow found a way to make it a partisan issue. Con-gress - an antonym for Pro-gress. (Admittedly trite, but apropos nonetheless.)

Dakota

dash_riprock wrote
For me, the pathetic part was that Congress somehow found a way to make it a partisan issue. Con-gress - an antonym for Pro-gress. (Admittedly trite, but apropos nonetheless.)

Yeah, that was a wonderment to behold... the Republicans seemed to line up for Clemens, and the Democrats for McNamee.

I'm not sure what to make of that... sports cheats are Republicans and drug dealers are Democrats? What

It is almost like they are programmed to choose opposite sides on every issue, no matter how pointless.

The fawning over Clemens was embarrassing. I almost expected one of the members to ask for his autograph.

Still, McNamee's story held up better than Clemens' did, IMO.

JRutledge

gordon30307 wrote
You must be a Republican they back RC and Democrats back McNamee:rolleyes:

Does not Petitte and Knolbach statement support McNamee? 😃

I have never voted Republican a day in my life. And who cares about this issue. This is like trying to put steam back in the bottle.

Congress should not be dealing with the personal situation of one person. The committee is suppose to "oversight" actions not get into each case of illegal drug use.

Peace

Jurassic Referee

waltjp wrote
Correct! The Senate was busy meeting with the NFL guys.

That won't work. The NFL has already burned all the evidence.🙂

And now the Commish says that Belechick has been illegally taping since the year 2000.

umpjong

canadaump6 wrote
I couldn't care either way. All this steroids crap is interfering with the game of baseball. Too bad the media couldn't focus on pitchers and catchers reporting to spring training.

Yes and Umpires too!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀

waltjp

Dakota wrote
Yeah, that was a wonderment to behold... the Republicans seemed to line up for Clemens, and the Democrats for McNamee.

I'm not sure what to make of that...

I was also amazed by this. Maybe it was all worked about beforehand like they'd do before a the debate team in school. Today's topic is .... and you'll be arguing ....

ozzy6900

Again, I say that this is a Baseball issue not a Congress Issue. This is a complete waste of time and OUR DAMNED MONEY! Who cares about this anyway as you cannot put talent in a syringe, Baseball will not negate anything, Baseball denied that this was going on, and again, who gives a $hit! Get off this crap and get these politicians back to doing their jobs (if they could figure out what that job was)!

umpjong

ozzy6900 wrote
Again, I say that this is a Baseball issue not a Congress Issue. This is a complete waste of time and OUR DAMNED MONEY! Who cares about this anyway as you cannot put talent in a syringe, Baseball will not negate anything, Baseball denied that this was going on, and again, who gives a $hit! Get off this crap and get these politicians back to doing their jobs (if they could figure out what that job was)!

Can I hear an AMEN, brother OZZY. 😉 😉

Dakota

The press reports have not been complimentary to the esteemed members of this committee. You know how in news stories when a member of Congress is mentioned, there is frequently a party-state ID that follows (e.g. R-Texas). Well, I saw one report that said, in reference to the committee chairman "Henry Waxman, D-Middle Earth"... And this was not in a right-wing rag, either.

Anyway, the pressure must be getting to the politicians regarding this ridiculous charade, since now we have this (quoting from the Sporting News)

House Oversight Committee chairman Henry Waxman regrets holding the hearings regarding former trainer Brian McNamee's allegations of steroid use by Roger Clemens, the New York Times reports.

Waxman said of Wednesday's four-hour hearing before the committee, "I think Clemens and McNamee both came out quite sullied, and I didn't think it was a hearing that needed to be held in order to get the facts out about the Mitchell report.

"I'm sorry we had the hearing. I regret that we had the hearing. And the only reason we had the hearing was because Roger Clemens and his lawyers insisted on it."

Clemens' lead counsel, Rusty Hardin, called Waxman's statements "unbelievable, disingenuous and outrageous."

"We didn't think any good would come out of having a food fight with [McNamee]," Hardin said.

"He is the one who created this circus in the first place," Hardin said of Waxman. Hardin told the newspaper that Clemens and his lawyers asked Waxman several weeks ago to call off the hearings but that once the depositions had been taken, the Clemens side had no choice but to proceed, fearing the committee would turn the depositions into a hostile written report.

On that last sentence... they expected the hearing to have their man look better???

jkumpire

Guys,

With the way the governement is expanding its reach into more and more of lives, and messing things up more and more, it is a relief when they do something that causes little damage like that steroid hearing!

If it will keep them from fouling anything else up, let them do more hearings like this.

jkumpire

Folks, it was the committee who invited RC and BM to Washington, Clemans did not demand a hearing. Waxman is a publicity hound, and he started this mess. To make his regrets for having it now is almost funny if it wasn't so sad.

Dakota

jkumpire wrote
Folks, it was the committee who invited RC and BM to Washington, Clemans did not demand a hearing. Waxman is a publicity hound, and he started this mess. To make his regrets for having it now is almost funny if it wasn't so sad.

I agree with almost all you say here. Far be it from me to defend the prominent proboscidean pore, but apparently (?) after the depositions were taken, Waxman floated the idea of not having the live hearing and just issuing a report. Also apparently (?) Clemens attorneys (aka the idiots) demanded the hearing be held. Give Waxman props for belatedly recognizing the uselessness of the actual hearing. Give Clemens' attorneys the idiot badge for demanding the hearing be held.

JRutledge

Dakota wrote
Give Waxman props for belatedly recognizing the uselessness of the actual hearing. Give Clemens' attorneys the idiot badge for demanding the hearing be held.

A public citizen cannot demand anything of congress unless the congress feels the need to do something. Waxman should have had sense enough to know that this issue was not a relevant reason to have a hearing. And I do not call Clemens' attorneys idiots to want to clear their clients name.

The funny thing about all of this, it shows why Barry Bonds did not want to make any statements publicly to the media about his situation. Clemens did everything the opposite that Bonds has done and people still believe he used steroids. Clemens is suing his accuser for liable, he came out and took on his accusers in the media and he went to Congress and even was willing to go under oath. And the result is the same. Everyone still thinks Clemens used something that he may not have used at all. This is why I have always said that this probing into the past is a waste of time. All someone has to do is accuse you and you are guilty of sin, no matter the circumstances.

Peace

Dakota

Clemens' main attorney is a very prominent defense attorney from the Houston area. Obviously, he is not an idiot in the mental sense. But in the sense of how to handle this situation, he either gave his client idiotic advice, or his client refused to follow his advice.

The more that is revealed about Clemens (and Bonds, for that matter) in this steriod / HGH using situation, the more it hurts rather than helps.

To believe Clemens, you have to not believe:
1) McNamee
2) Pettitte
3) Clemens' nanny
4) and even Clemens himself

Why would McNamee only make up stuff about Clemens?
Why was Clemens not at the party. Then at the party but didn't go in?
Why was the accusation by McNamee that he gave Clemens' wife an injection of HGH a "colossial lie" and then the "collosial lie" is only that Roger himself was involved?
Why does any athlete take injections of B-12 in his butt?
Why is it incredulous that a person would keep gauze for years but not incredulous that a person would keep a golf receipt for years?

Roger Clemens is willing to throw friends and family under the bus to protect his public reputation. Only problem is, by doing so, he has destroyed his public reputation.

I'll place merit in the libel suit only when it actually makes it to trial. Don't hold your breath on that one.

JRutledge

Dakota wrote
Why would McNamee only make up stuff about Clemens?

First of all the he is a government witness so he can protect his behind and not go to jail. He has every motive to tell a story that is not only hard to prove, but makes him look credible. If you know about the history of government informants, they have given information to save their skins, only to be found out later as a lie. McNamee has every motive to lie because getting a small fish does not save his behind.

Dakota wrote
Why was Clemens not at the party. Then at the party but didn't go in?

If I recall that Clemens never went to the party and there were even commentators that attended the party, went on air and said Clemens was not even there.

Dakota wrote
Why was the accusation by McNamee that he gave Clemens' wife an injection of HGH a "colossial lie" and then the "collosial lie" is only that Roger himself was involved?

Once again, you are confusing media reports, with testimony. If I recall Clemens never said that it was a lie in testimony, he said that McNamee was basically sick for involving his wife. HGH is legal and is taken by many people for youth purposes. Stallone advocates the usage of HGH.

Dakota wrote
Why does any athlete take injections of B-12 in his butt?

I have no idea. I am not a medical expert.

Dakota wrote
Why is it incredulous that a person would keep gauze for years but not incredulous that a person would keep a golf receipt for years?

A golf receipt might be held for tax purposes. I know I keep many records for years and it has nothing to do with a possible criminal protection. Holding gauze for one does not prove anything. Holding it in the basement in a freezer does not make the evidence credible. I have heard many lawyers say that it would be almost impossible to bring that into court because all the usual chain of custody rules was not followed. For all we know that information could have been doctored.

Dakota wrote
I'll place merit in the libel suit only when it actually makes it to trial. Don't hold your breath on that one.

If it goes to trial does not prove that Clemens is innocent or guilty. It just means it went to trial. My point was that the media and many who accuse these players of taking steroids cannot have it both ways. Bonds and Clemens have reacted completely opposite of each other and no matter what they do, the "public" (mainly the media) still makes it seem like they are both doing the wrong things by either keeping silent or vigorously defending their truth. So they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Peace

SanDiegoSteve

gordon30307 wrote
You must be a Republican they back RC and Democrats back McNamee:rolleyes:

Does not Petitte and Knolbach statement support McNamee? 😃

Well, the whole thing is a huge waste of time, listening to testimony about Roger Clemens' buttocks. Too much information.

That being said, I find McNamee to be very credible. I can picture Roger and his wife being injected. So, your theory is debunked, as I am a conservative Republican who is not blindly backing Clemens.

Now if I only had a presidential candidate to get behind 😠 .

CO ump

JRutledge wrote
A public citizen cannot demand anything of congress unless the congress feels the need to do something. Waxman should have had sense enough to know that this issue was not a relevant reason to have a hearing. And I do not call Clemens' attorneys idiots to want to clear their clients name.

Isn't it government "of the people, for the people and by the people"?

Although your normal joe citizen may not be able to 'demand' action by the congress, if you have enough political clout or can produce enough bad PR you can probably get most anything you want from congress.
RC attorney had enough public interest/support and media attention to persuade the folks in Washington to open the circus act another day.
So apparently a demand was made and congress succombed.

JRutledge wrote
The funny thing about all of this, it shows why Barry Bonds did not want to make any statements publicly to the media about his situation. Clemens did everything the opposite that Bonds has done and people still believe he used steroids. Clemens is suing his accuser for liable, he came out and took on his accusers in the media and he went to Congress and even was willing to go under oath. And the result is the same. Everyone still thinks Clemens used something that he may not have used at all. This is why I have always said that this probing into the past is a waste of time. All someone has to do is accuse you and you are guilty of sin, no matter the circumstances.

Peace

Fortunately for Roger he chose a profession that has made him a multimillionaire. Unfortunately, for him, his profession makes him subject to the court of public opinion.
The probing is directly related to his profession and in a time frame where he was making millions off his performance. I have absolutely no problem with public, media and MLB probing.
I have a huge problem with congressional probing, but that's a whole other issue.

JRutledge

CO ump wrote
Isn't it government "of the people, for the people and by the people"?

Although your normal joe citizen may not be able to 'demand' action by the congress, if you have enough political clout or can produce enough bad PR you can probably get most anything you want from congress.
RC attorney had enough public interest/support and media attention to persuade the folks in Washington to open the circus act another day.
So apparently a demand was made and congress succombed.

If the Chairperson decided not to have the hearing, there would have been no hearing. It is that simple.

CO ump wrote
Fortunately for Roger he chose a profession that has made him a multimillionaire. Unfortunately, for him, his profession makes him subject to the court of public opinion.
The probing is directly related to his profession and in a time frame where he was making millions off his performance. I have absolutely no problem with public, media and MLB probing.
I have a huge problem with congressional probing, but that's a whole other issue.

I do not care what profession he is in. And the amount of money that he makes has nothing to do with this discussion. His rights or the rights of others should not have anything to do with what they decided to do for a living. And it is not like he decided to be a professional player over being a doctor or lawyer. He had to be picked and good enough to maintain in the pros unlike most people that choose other professions. And if the public was so upset, they should have not paid money to attend a time that they think it was so obvious people were using drugs that were not considered illegal. I have attended maybe 3 major league baseball games in 25 years and I hardly watch the sport on TV except for a few post season games. I am not a person that is directly affected by what some player does in a league I hardly support finiancially. I would rather have congress investigate the billions that are unaccounted for in the war, than what one guy did 5 and 10 years ago.

Peace

Rich Ives

JJ wrote
...and Congress feels the right to poke around because Congress has allowed MLB an exemption to the anti-trust laws, which is one of the very few exemptions they have allowed.

JJ

The Supreme Court declared MLB exempt.

umpjong

Rich Ives wrote
The Supreme Court declared MLB exempt.

Technically, you are both correct. The supreme court ruled that the current anti trust laws did not apply to baseball, but also stated that congress could legislate anti trust laws that could apply to baseball. (so congress "has allowed" the exemption)

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