personal communication with coaches

Bearfanmike20

Dan_ref wrote
Cute.

I didn't happen to see you used the word "impartial" in there anywhere...but I'm sure a coach can tell me all sorts of stuff without being even slightly impartial.

Question is, does it have value to me?

Better question is why would I call or email him after the game to ask him if he thought I sucked.

NO. not impartial. NEVER.. LOL but.. if you call a violation on his guys the same all the way through the game a coach will recognize that.

Dan_ref

Bearfanmike20 wrote
NO. not impartial. NEVER.. LOL but.. if you call a violation on his guys the same all the way through the game a coach will recognize that.

...and again, why would I ask a coach to evaluate my performance? He'll have an opportunity to rate me.

Am I open to criticism? Absolutely. Do I evaluate my own performance during a game? Sure. Do I ask my partners for input if I think I'm not quite having the best game of my life? Yes. Do I ask a coach during or after a game what he thought of my game? Never.

tomegun

The old rules interpreter for a board in Maryland used to give coaches a test before the season. He would always only have one or two that passed. If a coach can't pass a test similar to the one we take, how can they give an impartial evaluation?
In Mississippi the coaches do evaluate the officials. Those that know me I'm always in danger of getting a bad eval because I'm there to do the best job I can and I don't care what the coach says. On Saturday I had the opportunity to ask a coach when he actually did the evaluation. He told me that he never does it right after the game. He said he likes to wait, watch the film and then do it. If only all the coaches did it this way.

One thing that alarms me about this conversation is the same problem I see in officiating. Back in the day a term was often used - be seen and not heard. Currently, reading the rules makes an official think he/she knows enough to participate in conversations - conversations that discuss doing things on the court that they simply cannot do.
I said all of that to say this. There are experienced officials on this board that are giving their opinion and constantly meeting opposition. Think about this for a second. Someone who has experienced something is giving an opinion and someone who hasn't had the experience is disputing that. Doesn't make sense to me. The bottom line is coaches do not like officials. They are not your friends. Some might think those two statements are extreme and they may be. But those two statements are a lot closer to the truth than thinking a coach is going to give an unbiased opinion.

Gunman out!

Welpe

I apologize for dipping my toes in the basketball waters; however, this seems to be a topic that covers multiple sports.

Bearfanmike20 wrote
NO. not impartial. NEVER.. LOL but.. if you call a violation on his guys the same all the way through the game a coach will recognize that.

In my experience of officiating baseball, football, and coaching football (hey only two seasons, put the pitchforks away!) the amount of coaches that are able to do this are a small percentage. I've had the occasional losing coach tell me I've done a good job but the comments of "call it both ways" are much more common.

Aside from a few personal friends that are coaches, I would not actively solicit the opinions of coaches from games that you've worked. I would imagine that is only going to invite more problems than it would solve.

tomegun, well said!

On an unrelated note, I might have to get in on this basketball officiating thingy, you guys have way too much fun here.

REFVA

In Mississippi the coaches do evaluate the officials. Those that know me I'm always in danger of getting a bad eval because I'm there to do the best job I can and I don't care what the coach says.TOMEGUN

Having said that you are in danger, we know you are a good official; does your assignor or commissioner back you up when you get poor evaluations? My experience is that most commissioner especially at the High school level will not back the official up and be afraid to go against the system because they may loose the contract if they oppose the coaches and the AD's. IMO that has been my experience. As you stated.

[deleted]

Junker wrote
Did you have game management talk to him?

No, I felt really comfortable about how I was calling the game so while I was at T (2 person) on a free throw administration I discreetly asked him if he wanted to hang around for the varsity contest or if he would rather me hit the eject button now.

I know that wasn't procedure but...

Result:
I never heard another word from him that night. He's a great, brilliant HS coach & led his squad to the 5A Boys State Championship last season.

I did see him often over the summer as I worked all the Pro-AM & DPS summer leagues I could get my hands on & he showed respect each time our paths crossed.

rockyroad

Ch1town wrote
No, I felt really comfortable about how I was calling the game so while I was at T (2 person) on a free throw administration I discreetly asked him if he wanted to hang around for the varsity contest or if he would rather me hit the eject button now.

I know that wasn't procedure but...

.

Procedure? I would have to say that in this particular instance, who cares what "procedure" is! It worked, and it seems like the coach got your message loud and clear...sounds like something Bhuck Elics or Jon Diebler would do! Good on ya, mate.

Jurassic Referee

rockyroad wrote
...sounds like something Bhuck Elics or Jon Diebler would do!

Bhuck Elics is no Jon Diebler. Jon is on a whole 'nother plane. There's just no comparison.

Sorry, Bhuck but there it is.

tomegun

REFVA wrote
Having said that you are in danger, we know you are a good official; does your assignor or commissioner back you up when you get poor evaluations? My experience is that most commissioner especially at the High school level will not back the official up and be afraid to go against the system because they may loose the contract if they oppose the coaches and the AD's. IMO that has been my experience. As you stated.

I don't think he backs me up. I normally send emails to tell him, and explain, before he hears it elsewhere.
For instance, he was in the stands during a rivalry game last year. I'm at the C in front of a coach and one of my partners calls a non-shooting foul. The coach felt like it should have been a shooting foul. Because he didn't get a shooting foul he said, "See ref, that is just racial." Nobody was paying attention to our side of the court until I wheeled on him and whacked is ***! I'm black, the coach was black and my partner is white. There is NO place for that in high school basketball! There is no place for that on the planet! He got the foul for crying out loud. My partner is a racist because he didn't give him a shooting foul? The assigner seemed to vanish after the game. This coach was a problem - noticed I said was as in his *** got the boot - and the assigner didn't even bother to come into our dressing room to find out what happened.

Adam

Jurassic Referee wrote
Bhuck Elics is no Jon Diebler. Jon is on a whole 'nother plane. There's just no comparison.

Sorry, Bhuck but there it is.

Ooh, he went and said it!

REFVA

I don't think he backs me up. I normally send emails to tell him, and explain, before he hears it elsewhere.
TOMEGUN

I hear you.. we as officals are on an Island alone. Coaches don't like us, the players don't like us, the fans don't like us and our association leaders don't back us.

But everyday I enjoy getting on that court doing my job.

rainmaker

REFVA wrote
I hear you.. we as officals are on an Island alone. Coaches don't like us, the players don't like us, the fans don't like us and our association leaders don't back us.

But everyday I enjoy getting on that court doing my job.

What are you talking about? WE aren't out there alone -- we don't like you either! It's just you refva. You out there all by yourself against the whole world. 😃😃

Dan_ref

Snaqwells wrote
Ooh, he went and said it!

Did you know Bhuck Elics backwards spells Scile Kcuhb?

Food for thought my friend...

rainmaker

Dan_ref wrote
Did you know Bhuck Elics backwards spells Scile Kcuhb?

Food for thought my friend...

Thank goodness you're misspelling it correctly...

REFVA

What are you talking about? WE aren't out there alone -- we don't like you either! It's just you refva. You out there all by yourself against the whole world. Rainmaker

Thanks Rainmaker, you made my day..:eek:

rainmaker

REFVA wrote
Thanks Rainmaker, you made my day..:eek:

Well, I was totally joking, but I do see a serious point behind this joshing. I think having the attitude that everyone's out to get you makes it more difficult to have a good game. Even when they ARE out to get you (which I'm not sure they always are), usually there are ways to cut through the antagonistic stuff and have a more collaborative front. Especially coaches and players need to learn to see refs as being less enemies and more as neutral or objective. That attitude will grow more when you can have it, too. I'm not saying your feelings of paranoia are wrong, just that it's better for you to try to fight them.

REFVA

Well, I was totally joking, but I do see a serious point behind this joshing. I think having the attitude that everyone's out to get you makes it more difficult to have a good game. Even when they ARE out to get you (which I'm not sure they always are), usually there are ways to cut through the antagonistic stuff and have a more collaborative front. Especially coaches and players need to learn to see refs as being less enemies and more as neutral or objective. That attitude will grow more when you can have it, too. I'm not saying your feelings of paranoia are wrong, just that it's better for you to try to fight them.
Today 04:29pm
Rainmaker

I understand your point, don't get me wrong most of the coaches know me well and have a very professional relationship on and off the court. Although there are some coaches that just have that wall no matter what.

Mark Padgett

Dan_ref wrote
Did you know Bhuck Elics backwards spells Scile Kcuhb?

But what is it in metric??? 😕

Adam

Mark Padgett wrote
But what is it in metric??? :confused:

Just add a 'u' somewhere. You can choose where.

rockyroad

Dan_ref wrote
Did you know Bhuck Elics backwards spells Scile Kcuhb?

Food for thought my friend...

Holy crap...Dan_Ref spelled backwards is Fer_Nad.

Glad that "e" isn't a "u" or rainmaker would be p!ssed!!:p

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