Illegal Motion vs False Start

Bob M.

ABO77 wrote
Bob Im still trying to understand the QB exception if there is one for Fed...Ill look it up.

And yes two players in motion is Illegal motion, but I think its an illegal shift too. I would of just called this an Illegal shift.

My last post definitely had some holes in it.

REPLY: I just used the QB play as an example. All I was trying to get at is that the Fed definition of 'shift' involves the movement of one or more players to a new set position. So even if one player moved to a new position and reset, everyone needs to be stopped for that one required second. If the snap goes off less than a second after he sets, you have an illegal shift. NCAA rules are different because their definition of a shift requires two or more players to new set positions. So the play I gave would be legal in an NCAA game.

As for two players in motion, it can only be an illegal shift if:
(a) they began moving less than a second after the rest of their team was set, or
(b) one of them stopped just prior to the snap (in which case it couldn't be illegal motion).

Bob M.

REPLY: BoBo...nothing to be sorry for. You asked a good question and generated some discussion. And it seems you got your answer. Good topic.

LeRoy

Team A lines up with both slots 1 yard behind the tight ends. One of the slot players starts in motion after taking one step backwards A snaps the ball. Is this Illegal Motion. My first thought was that the player in motion had to be in motion for 1 second. but after looking in the rules book I believe I was wrong. But does A player have to be 5 yards deep before the snap.:rolleyes:

Suudy

Bob M. wrote
And, if on signal two backs mistakenly both begin motion parallel to the LOS and the ball is snapped, I would call this illegal motion. [Two players in motion at the snap]

I've alway heard the mantra "one in motion (illegally) one arm, two in motion two arms" for the signa. Thus the description above (two players in motion, parallel to the LOS) is, at least as I've seen it called, an illegal shift.

Hmmm.... Something to bring up at our next meeting.

ABO77

Ok, this may of been covered but what do we have in this play...

Case: all 11 players have gone to there pre-snap positions. The interior lineman are in a three point stance except for the left guard who is in in a two point stance. All 11 players have paused for one second and no player has gone in motion. As the left guard is shifting to a three point stance (with out a false start) the ball is snapped.

Illegal shift? Illegal motion?

I'm getting a little confused.

Bob M.

ABO77 wrote
Ok, this may of been covered but what do we have in this play...

Case: all 11 players have gone to there pre-snap positions. The interior lineman are in a three point stance except for the left guard who is in in a two point stance. All 11 players have paused for one second and no player has gone in motion. As the left guard is shifting to a three point stance (with out a false start) the ball is snapped.

Illegal shift? Illegal motion?

I'm getting a little confused.

REPLY: I'd say illegal motion. Since the lineman was still moving, he never completed the shift. Therefore it can't be an illegal shift. However, it he had just completed the shift (reset) and the snap was immediately therafter (less then one second later), it would be an illegal shift.

Bob M.

Suudy wrote
I've alway heard the mantra "one in motion (illegally) one arm, two in motion two arms" for the signa. Thus the description above (two players in motion, parallel to the LOS) is, at least as I've seen it called, an illegal shift.

Hmmm.... Something to bring up at our next meeting.

REPLY: Consider NF 7-2-7:

"ART. 7… Not more than one Team A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent's goal line..."

PENALTY: ... illegal motion (Art. 7)--(S20)

Robert Goodman

LeRoy wrote
Team A lines up with both slots 1 yard behind the tight ends. One of the slot players starts in motion after taking one step backwards A snaps the ball. Is this Illegal Motion. My first thought was that the player in motion had to be in motion for 1 second. but after looking in the rules book I believe I was wrong. But does A player have to be 5 yards deep before the snap.:rolleyes:

No. There was a time way back when a back in motion had to be at least 5 yards behind his LOS, but now that applies only to a lineman becoming a back without setting. "1 yard behind the tight ends" means a backfield position, so if that player had already set, it's legal. And this "jump motion" is very common by teams using the double wing.

Fed was the last to abolish the "clearly backward" requirement for the MiM, and that was 20+ years ago.

Robert

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