Infield Fly question

greymule

Gold Star, David!

Skahtboi

David Emerling wrote
The "intentionally dropped ball" rule can never apply when an Infield Fly has been called.

No matter how intentional or devious the actions are on the part of the infielder, the runners received all the information they needed when the umpire(s) bellowed out, "INFIELD FLY, BATTER'S OUT!"

They are not forced. The only way a double play can now occur is if one of the runners foolishly walks into a tag.

Can an infielder legally, and intentionally, drop a declared infield fly?

Yes!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Are you "justcallmeblue?" 😕

NCASAUmp

Skahtboi wrote
Are you "justcallmeblue?" :confused:

Yeah! Boooooo! Hiss! I had my hand up first, man! 😉

David Emerling

Skahtboi wrote
Are you "justcallmeblue?" :confused:

Oops! Sorry. Was that question just for him?

By bad.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

greymule

Oops! Sorry. Was that question just for him?

Yes, but justcallmeblue refused to answer and is now standing in the corner. You still get a Gold Star, David.

NCASAUump, for waiting your turn, you get the next question (if I can think of one!).

NCASAUmp

greymule wrote
Oops! Sorry. Was that question just for him?

Yes, but justcallmeblue refused to answer and is now standing in the corner. You still get a Gold Star, David.

NCASAUump, for waiting your turn, you get the next question (if I can think of one!).

As long as it's a SP question, I'm game.

Though in advance, my answer is: 42.

Skahtboi

NCASAUmp wrote
Though in advance, my answer is: 42.

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they tell me to take you up to the bridge. Call that job satisfaction? Cause I don't.

Julio Caliente

Okay, here is one I saw this weekend. R1 & R2, 1 out, time has expired, and the offensive team is down by 1 or 2 runs.

IFF is hit, BU throws up both hands as does PU (Husband/wife couple that had some very "interesting" umpiring styles). The ball is not caught, and R2 is about 10-15ft off the base. She looks up, sees both umpires with their hands in the air, and casually walks back towards second. DC starts yelling at his players to tag her, which they do. BU rings her up for the third out and game over. OC starts raising hell because both umpires has signaled "Time Out" instead of IFF. Say you were the BU and the PU signaled with both hands in the air or vice versa, what would you do?

UIC (college assignor) was near me in the press box and had a few choice words to say......

Mountaineer

Julio Caliente wrote
Okay, here is one I saw this weekend. R1 & R2, 1 out, time has expired, and the offensive team is down by 1 or 2 runs.

IFF is hit, BU throws up both hands as does PU (Husband/wife couple that had some very "interesting" umpiring styles). The ball is not caught, and R2 is about 10-15ft off the base. She looks up, sees both umpires with their hands in the air, and casually walks back towards second. DC starts yelling at his players to tag her, which they do. BU rings her up for the third out and game over. OC starts raising hell because both umpires has signaled "Time Out" instead of IFF. Say you were the BU and the PU signaled with both hands in the air or vice versa, what would you do?

UIC (college assignor) was near me in the press box and had a few choice words to say......

If I'm the OC, I'm calling for a UIC to protest.

Skahtboi

Julio Caliente wrote
Okay, here is one I saw this weekend. R1 & R2, 1 out, time has expired, and the offensive team is down by 1 or 2 runs.

IFF is hit, BU throws up both hands as does PU (Husband/wife couple that had some very "interesting" umpiring styles). The ball is not caught, and R2 is about 10-15ft off the base. She looks up, sees both umpires with their hands in the air, and casually walks back towards second. DC starts yelling at his players to tag her, which they do. BU rings her up for the third out and game over. OC starts raising hell because both umpires has signaled "Time Out" instead of IFF. Say you were the BU and the PU signaled with both hands in the air or vice versa, what would you do?

UIC (college assignor) was near me in the press box and had a few choice words to say......

I am wondering how these two explained themselves to the OC.

Julio Caliente

Skahtboi wrote
I am wondering how these two explained themselves to the OC.

I have no idea on that explanation, but after some of the things the UIC told them and the way they took it I am going to say not too good.

MD Longhorn

David Emerling wrote
Are you also saying that the Infield Fly Rule cannot be invoked if a ball, easily catchable by an infielder, is actually caught by an outfielder - For instance, a high popup just a few steps behind F4, is caught by F9 who calls F4 off?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

He's an idiot, and I'm all for the dogpile... but unfortunately that's not what he said at all. He said CAN, not IS.

Dakota

Skahtboi wrote
I am wondering how these two explained themselves to the OC.

They explained that it was not a time out signal, but an overhead double fist pump.

Skahtboi

Dakota wrote
They explained that it was not a time out signal, but an overhead double fist pump.

But....wouldn't that mean that the ball hit the plate......twice?

Julio Caliente

Skahtboi wrote
But....wouldn't that mean that the ball hit the plate......twice?

Just wait until I write "The Ugly" from this weekend.

These two umpires along w/ their daughter will be part of it.

Andy

Julio Caliente wrote
...Say you were the BU and the PU signaled with both hands in the air or vice versa, what would you do?

Since no one answered your question yet......

I'm declaring the batter out, and placing the runners back on the bases they were on when the ball was hit.

From your description, it's obvious that the runner reacted to the umpires dead ball signal and was placed in jeopardy from it.

Oh yeah....and I'm going to have some words for him/her after the game also.

David Emerling

Andy wrote
Since no one answered your question yet......

I'm declaring the batter out, and placing the runners back on the bases they were on when the ball was hit.

From your description, it's obvious that the runner reacted to the umpires dead ball signal and was placed in jeopardy from it.

Oh yeah....and I'm going to have some words for him/her after the game also.

If the umpires explained that they did not give the "Time/Dead Ball" signal, then it wasn't - even if the runners thought it was. After all, they didn't say "Time!", did they? They didn't say "Dead Ball!", did they?

Did the umpires say, "Infield fly, batter's out!"?

If so, then that's what it was!

The offense bears the responsibility of knowing what it means when an Infield Fly is declared.

As unorthodox as the umpires' gestures may have been, if they (the umpires) felt that it did not unfairly put the runners in jeopardy, then the call stands. The runner is out.

Now, if the umpires thought that they did, in fact, signal inappropriately -and- as a direct result of their signals the runners were unfairly put in jeopardy -then- I could see calling the batter out and putting the runners back.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

MNBlue

David Emerling wrote
Now, if the umpires thought that they did, in fact, signal inappropriately -and- as a direct result of their signals the runners were unfairly put in jeopardy -then- I could see calling the batter out and putting the runners back.

If their mechanics are bad enough to signal dead ball during an IFF, what is the liklihood that any of this is actually going to happen?

NCASAUmp

David Emerling wrote
If the umpires explained that they did not give the "Time/Dead Ball" signal, then it wasn't - even if the runners thought it was. After all, they didn't say "Time!", did they? They didn't say "Dead Ball!", did they?

Did the umpires say, "Infield fly, batter's out!"?

If so, then that's what it was!

The offense bears the responsibility of know what it means when an Infield Fly is declared.

As unorthodox as the umpires' gestures may have been, if they (the umpires) felt that it did not unfairly put the runners in jeopardy, then the call stands. The runner is out.

Now, if the umpires thought that they did, in fact, signal inappropriately -and- as a direct result of their signals the runners were unfairly put in jeopardy -then- I could see calling the batter out and putting the runners back.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you somewhat on this...

What we've got here is a fustercluck due to two umpires making a bad visual call. However, it is NOT up to the runners to know that ONLY an IFF was called when two umpires gave the dead ball signal. Maybe the batter's foot was completely out of the box. Maybe, somehow, the ball contacted the bat twice. Maybe a plane was about to crash land on the outfield fence. Runners can't see these things, and so they rely upon us umpires to make the right call, both verbal and visual.

I'm a particularly loud umpire, and despite this fact, there are times when verbal calls are not heard due to dozens of spectators and participants yelling a million different things. This is why verbal calls are almost always accompanied by visual calls, especially for situations such as these. When the wrong visual call is given, runners are placed in jeopardy. At this point, the Offensive Coach should have protested the game, and those two umps should be sent to the next clinic (or maybe to this forum).

I had an IFF the other night that went unheard due to everyone screaming, but I sure as hell threw up my right fist (and ONLY my right fist) and came out from behind the plate.

David Emerling

NCASAUmp wrote
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you somewhat on this...

What we've got here is a fustercluck due to two umpires making a bad visual call. However, it is NOT up to the runners to know that ONLY an IFF was called when two umpires gave the dead ball signal. Maybe the batter's foot was completely out of the box. Maybe, somehow, the ball contacted the bat twice. Maybe a plane was about to crash land on the outfield fence. Runners can't see these things, and so they rely upon us umpires to make the right call, both verbal and visual.

I'm a particularly loud umpire, and despite this fact, there are times when verbal calls are not heard due to dozens of spectators and participants yelling a million different things. This is why verbal calls are almost always accompanied by visual calls, especially for situations such as these. When the wrong visual call is given, runners are placed in jeopardy. At this point, the Offensive Coach should have protested the game, and those two umps should be sent to the next clinic (or maybe to this forum).

I had an IFF the other night that went unheard due to everyone screaming, but I sure as hell threw up my right fist (and ONLY my right fist) and came out from behind the plate.

Yeah, that's a pretty good analysis.

Like I said, the umpires have to be convinced they signaled incorrectly and created the situation. If the umpires thought they signaled appropriately, they shouldn't allow the coach or players talk them into what THEY thought the umpire signaled.

This reminds me of the old urban legend (not sure if it's true). During a big game with thousands of fans, the runner slides into a base on a close play and the umpire signals "out" yet says "Safe!". The runner, lying there confused asks, "Well, am I safe or out?" to which the umpire replies. "I know you're safe. You know you're safe. But 20 thousand people think you're out. So you're out." 🙂

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

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