ASA SP shorthanded question

dnank

I'm not an official. I'm just looking for some clearity. 12 and under girls had a protested game where there was an knee injury that took a girl out and the team had no substitutes. The first time she came around in the batting order an out was called. Coaches and parents on her team were steamed. The game was close and between two hot rivals. The next time the other coach walked the girl before the injured player and then the automatic out would have been the third, but the complaining stopped the ump from calling the automatic out and they just let the next batter go without an out. The ump had a conference with the league president during the game and they decided to stop the auto out calls, but the first one stood. Game ends soon after and the team with the injured player lost. There isn't much in the rules regarding injury, but it looks like the ump was wrong. Everyone hates the coach that intentionally walked the girl and since then there has been even more bad blood and things have gotten worse in the league. Coaches don't call games and in the end it was the plate umps fault for letting it get out of control and caving to the crowd. The league president is also at fault for influencing the game when he doesn't even know the rules. What do you think?

NCASAUmp

If the league has no rule regarding a player leaving the game under injury, then the umpire was correct in calling the first out. However, the umpire should have continued to call the out every time her spot was up to bat. I realize that this is just 12U, but the foresight falls on the league president to create this rule BEFORE the season starts. Otherwise, if there is no local rule beforehand, then it falls under the ASA rule, which says there is an out.

Out of curiosity, who protested the game, and under what grounds? The shorthanded team, or the winning team?

dnank

I'm not sure about the protesting after the game, but during the game the coaches for the team with the injured player were protesting. They were being egged on by the parents who were cursing and being very rude. Remember this is 12&U. It looks like a lot of discussion went on after the game and the league president was pressured into making a bad decision. Since that game these teams met again and the other team won. So, they split regular season games and there has been a big dispute over who is division champs. I say it doesn't really matter but some violently disagree. One team's record was one game better so they should be declared champs. The league president made them play an unscheduled division title game last night which was rained out halfway through. It's a mess. The league president didn't fully understand the rules. My wife had to pull out the ASA rulebook before the game last night and show him the shorthanded rule, and he admitted he was wrong. But, the game went on.

And, the league rules that I have access to don't say anything about modifications to the ASA rules regarding batting order. Our coach doesn't know of any other "top secret" league rules either. They make some up as they go along.

NCASAUmp

And the only ones who are going to suffer from this are the girls - not because they legitimately lost the game, but because of how their parents behaved and set a poor example. My only sympathy is for the players, who are caught up in what strikes me as their parents' fantasy of living life through them.

Rules are rules. If the parents are that upset about it, they should ask the league president to create/change the local rule before next season.

The league president needs a rule book, and he needs to actually read it.

IRISHMAFIA

dnank wrote
I'm not an official. I'm just looking for some clearity. 12 and under girls had a protested game where there was an knee injury that took a girl out and the team had no substitutes. The first time she came around in the batting order an out was called. Coaches and parents on her team were steamed. The game was close and between two hot rivals. The next time the other coach walked the girl before the injured player and then the automatic out would have been the third, but the complaining stopped the ump from calling the automatic out and they just let the next batter go without an out. The ump had a conference with the league president during the game and they decided to stop the auto out calls, but the first one stood. Game ends soon after and the team with the injured player lost. There isn't much in the rules regarding injury, but it looks like the ump was wrong. Everyone hates the coach that intentionally walked the girl and since then there has been even more bad blood and things have gotten worse in the league. Coaches don't call games and in the end it was the plate umps fault for letting it get out of control and caving to the crowd. The league president is also at fault for influencing the game when he doesn't even know the rules. What do you think?

As already stated, the umpire was wrong in not calling the out. The president was wrong for interfering in the game. The fans/parents were wrong for being upset and not knowing the rules. Apparently, the only one who did know the rule was the winning coach since he was smart enough to take advantage of the shorthanded rule which is covered very clearly in ASA 4.1.D.

If the parents/fans/team doesn't like the shorthanded rule, they can always go back before it was instituted and just end the game with the injury of the player.

CecilOne

IRISHMAFIA wrote
If the parents/fans/team doesn't like the shorthanded rule, they can always go back before it was instituted and just end the game with the injury of the player.

Ditto. 🙄