Here is the Tenn/Virginia Play

Big2Cat

Is this a T?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvTfNrt__LI

Nevadaref

In MHO yes. The player was okay to grasp the ring and hang there to avoid landing on the player below him as that is a fairly clear case of an attempt to prevent an injury to himself or another. However, once he used his position up there to his advantage by reaching out and attempting to block the shot, he broke a rule. The proper penalty for the rule he broke is a technical foul.

BktBallRef

Nevadaref wrote
In MHO yes. The player was okay to grasp the ring and hang there to avoid landing on the player below him as that is a fairly clear case of an attempt to prevent an injury to himself or another. However, once he used his position up there to his advantage by reaching out and attempting to block the shot, he broke a rule. The proper penalty for the rule he broke is a technical foul.

Preventing injury? Why is he allowed to grasp the rim to begin with? 😕

I haven't looked at the replay. I saw the play live and knew it should have been a T. 🙁

Scrapper1

BktBallRef wrote
Preventing injury? Why is he allowed to grasp the rim to begin with? 😕

I only watched it once, but it looked to me like there was an offensive player directly beneath him.

Raymond

Scrapper1 wrote
I only watched it once, but it looked to me like there was an offensive player directly beneath him.

Nah, he was jumping the opposite direction that the offensive player was moving. He had to swing back just to commit the foul.

I think this play could make the "Hank Nichols Hilight Reel".

buckrog64

Looks to me like the ref could have made the call that a player was nearby and thus he was entitled to hold onto the rim for safety's sake. But then he used that advantage of being up on the rim to swat the ball away. That would be a T I believe. Almost may have had a goaltending call too, about a half a second from that from the looks of things.

tnzebra

Looks to me he was hanging on the rim and attempted to block the shot with his other hand. I agree this was a weird looking play but the right thing to do is a T.

deecee

how did it look like he was hanging on to protect himself?

he was moving away from the play and had to use the rim to swing back to foul the defender. Nevada now I expected you of all people to come up with about 3 or 4 odd rules that would not only show that the T was warranted but that under some circumstances he should have been tar, feathered and forced to play the remainder of the game in clown shoes.

BktBallRef

Scrapper1 wrote
I only watched it once, but it looked to me like there was an offensive player directly beneath him.

Again, why is he grasped the rim to begin with? There's no shot, he just jumps up and grabs the rim. That's a T, period. If he doesn't grasp the rim, there's no reason to hang on to prevent injury.

Camron Rust

deecee wrote
how did it look like he was hanging on to protect himself?

he was moving away from the play and had to use the rim to swing back to foul the defender. Nevada now I expected you of all people to come up with about 3 or 4 odd rules that would not only show that the T was warranted but that under some circumstances he should have been tar, feathered and forced to play the remainder of the game in clown shoes.

He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He knows he is in traffic and has actually had contact. That's all I need to know about grabbing the rim for safety. I'm only coming up with a T if he has several feet around him to the next player (regardless of the direction they're moving) OR if he showboats rather than just grabs.

Scrapper1

BktBallRef wrote
Again, why is he grasped the rim to begin with?

Um, because there's an offensive player directly below him? He goes up to block the shot, but the shooter fakes. I agree with Camron. The T is certainly justified when he tries to make a play on the ball while holding the rim. But just for grasping, I would not give the T for that.

Dan_ref

Scrapper1 wrote
Um, because there's an offensive player directly below him? He goes up to block the shot, but the shooter fakes. I agree with Camron. The T is certainly justified when he tries to make a play on the ball while holding the rim. But just for grasping, I would not give the T for that.

I agree. 147%.

tmp44

Assume for argument's sake that, by rule, we should have had a technical called once he made the play on the ball while still grasping the rim. Is it possible that the officials here were under the same mindset as the Oden non-intentional? i.e., let the players decide the game?

For the record, I'm not advocating this position, just merely throwing it out there to try to get a better understanding....

biz

Here's what I'm thinking about doing...Not sure there is any backing in the book and I probably wouldn't have done this but it might spark some discussion.

I think that the grasping of the rim in this case calls for a T, but I would want to hold the whistle to allow the offensive player to complete what looks like it could be an easy basket. The calling official signals a personal foul on Cain on the "block" attempt I would call the personal as well as the T. Since the T happened first Tennesse would shoot two with the lane cleared and then shoot the personals with the lane spaces occupied and the game would continue.

rainmaker

biz wrote
Here's what I'm thinking about doing...Not sure there is any backing in the book and I probably wouldn't have done this but it might spark some discussion.

I think that the grasping of the rim in this case calls for a T, but I would want to hold the whistle to allow the offensive player to complete what looks like it could be an easy basket. The calling official signals a personal foul on Cain on the "block" attempt I would call the personal as well as the T. Since the T happened first Tennesse would shoot two with the lane cleared and then shoot the personals with the lane spaces occupied and the game would continue.

I don't think you can get away with two separate fouls here. I think it's gotta be one or the other.

Mark Dexter

biz wrote
Here's what I'm thinking about doing...Not sure there is any backing in the book and I probably wouldn't have done this but it might spark some discussion.

I think that the grasping of the rim in this case calls for a T, but I would want to hold the whistle to allow the offensive player to complete what looks like it could be an easy basket. The calling official signals a personal foul on Cain on the "block" attempt I would call the personal as well as the T. Since the T happened first Tennesse would shoot two with the lane cleared and then shoot the personals with the lane spaces occupied and the game would continue.

Doesn't this go back to NC's play with the delayed technical? I'd rule differently in this situation, though. If you call a technical for hanging on the rim, then the contact would have to be either nothing or an intentional technical foul for dead ball contact.

biz

Mark Dexter wrote
Doesn't this go back to NC's play with the delayed technical? I'd rule differently in this situation, though. If you call a technical for hanging on the rim, then the contact would have to be either nothing or an intentional technical foul for dead ball contact.

I haven't seen NC's play. What's the thread title?

If you delay the whistle on the T for grasping the rim then the ball is not dead and you don't have to call the intentional T for dead ball contact.

Mark Dexter

biz wrote
I haven't seen NC's play. What's the thread title?

If you delay the whistle on the T for grasping the rim then the ball is not dead and you don't have to call the intentional T for dead ball contact.

"False Double Foul with Held Whistle"
http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=32902

tomegun

Mark Dexter wrote
Doesn't this go back to NC's play with the delayed technical? I'd rule differently in this situation, though. If you call a technical for hanging on the rim, then the contact would have to be either nothing or an intentional technical foul for dead ball contact.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tomegun

Camron Rust wrote
He doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. He knows he is in traffic and has actually had contact. That's all I need to know about grabbing the rim for safety. I'm only coming up with a T if he has several feet around him to the next player (regardless of the direction they're moving) OR if he showboats rather than just grabs.

Did you see the play? I don't want to offend those that think it shouldn't be a T, but come on! If this is the same play I think it is, this is play-calling 101. He was headed in a different direction than the offensive player and not only did he hang on the rim, he used the rim to stop his momentum and keep himself in the play. Again, if this is the play I think it is - if the player doesn't hang on the rim, he flies by and the offensive player shoots an uncontested layup.

I can't look at this play at work - is this the same play I'm thinking of?