Coach Ejected!

Jurassic Referee

BktBallRef wrote
[IMG]

You truly are clueless.

Please note for the record that Old School is just agreeing with NevadaRef.

Couldn't help it. Bad Woddy. Bad,bad Woddy!😃

Old School

Okay, now that you have shown me that I was wrong or no rule supports my actions. Then tell us what the correct action is by the rule? Now please tell me where does it state the game is over if there is no coach? I know you just love to point out when I'm wrong. I also know it makes your day, hence, that's why I do it. Us old guys need to swing that hammer down sometimes so I give you the opportuntity to take it out on me. One day you will thank me for this.

Peace

BLydic

JMO lives!!

JRutledge

Wisscott wrote
Just a question. Since when does a sub-varsity coach even have a coaching box.
In Wisconsin only varsity coaches have that priviledge. Once it's lost by the head coach, if he is ejected his replacement doesn't have the box.

My state has the same coaching box at all levels. What you are describing is about Wisconsin, not anywhere else unless they have a similar rule.

Peace

Adam

Old School wrote
Okay, now that you have shown me that I was wrong or no rule supports my actions. Then tell us what the correct action is by the rule? Now please tell me where does it state the game is over if there is no coach? I know you just love to point out when I'm wrong. I also know it makes your day, hence, that's why I do it. Us old guys need to swing that hammer down sometimes so I give you the opportuntity to take it out on me. One day you will thank me for this.

I'll tell you what. If by the time I get home tonight no one has posted the reference for this, I'll do it. In the mean time, feel free to actually look it up on your own.
By rule, most would grant the Asst. Coach the HC's previous duties (requesting TO, requesting that a correctable error be corrected, responsibility for the bench and the potential indirect Ts that go with it, etc.). Some may say that no one gets to call a TO from the bench, etc., but I can't for the life of me figure out why. 😉

Adam

Okay, I said I'd get back on this. I looked in the NFHS rule book and couldn't find it. However, it is in the CHSAA directives. "A game shall be forfeited if there is not a certified person available to serve as coach."

I'd be willing to bet money that whatever state you claim to ref in has the same regulations for high school sports.

HawkeyeCubP

Snaqwells wrote
Okay, I said I'd get back on this. I looked in the NFHS rule book and couldn't find it. However, it is in the CHSAA directives. "A game shall be forfeited if there is not a certified person available to serve as coach."

Snaqs - I was curious about this too, and I can't find anything either. Any officials out here in sunny California know of any CIF (or CCS) regulations regarding presence of coaches, etc.? I know that it mandates teams be coached by people who meet the requirements of being a "coach" in something called Title V, but I can't find Title V (or even the larger body of work that Title V is a part of). I've searched the bylaws and constitution of the CIF (our state high school association governing athletics), but can't find a darned thing. I'd like to know this, too.

Old School

Snaqwells wrote
Okay, I said I'd get back on this. I looked in the NFHS rule book and couldn't find it. However, it is in the CHSAA directives. "A game shall be forfeited if there is not a certified person available to serve as coach."

Not in the rulebook, hmm.... I bet you think I didn't know that.

Actually what I suggested I would do is in the rulebook. Rule 2-3: Officials shall make decisions on any points not specially covered in the rulebook. DA! DA!

Logically speaking, if there is a designated captain for the team, which I always mark in the book when I'm the R for the game. It is not totally out of reach (at least in my opinion it's not) to go to this person (in the absence of a HC and AC) and request certain administrative things from him, like replacing a person who has foul out. I have seen captains do this in some of my pre-season games, send in subs, request players on the floor to run certain plays, etc. I would also not access this person a direct or indirect technical for something that would have gone to the head coach. It will just be a bench technical from here on out. Just put this in the report after the game, which you know you're going to have to do.

Jurassic Referee

Old School wrote
I bet you think I didn't know that.

Um, well, yeah. On every post that you make.🙂

Adam

Old School wrote
Not in the rulebook, hmm.... I bet you think I didn't know that.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Don't get too excited.

Old School wrote
Actually what I suggested I would do is in the rulebook. Rule 2-3: Officials shall make decisions on any points not specially covered in the rulebook. DA! DA!

Ooh, the Magic Rule. Try pulling this out of your azz during a sanctioned high school game, just once. I dare you.

As I told you, in both states I've reffed, this is a state rule. So, it is specifically covered. I would be willing to bet money that it's the same in every state, with minor alterations (such as whether the replacement adult had to be a certified coach, teacher, or just a kind parent with a pulse).

Old School wrote
Logically speaking....

Not really.

Old School wrote
Just put this in the report after the game, which you know you're going to have to do.

If you're going to disregard state rules that don't allow the game to continue when one team doesn't have a coach; why are you going to report the ejections? Nothing in the rules says you're supposed to.

bob jenkins

Old School wrote
Logically speaking, if there is a designated captain for the team, which I always mark in the book when I'm the R for the game. It is not totally out of reach (at least in my opinion it's not) to go to this person (in the absence of a HC and AC) and request certain administrative things from him,

I'd suggest that you contact the State (VA?) Association and see how to handle it in your state.

Old School

Snaqwells wrote
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Don't get too excited. I suppose there is meaning behind this, but I have no idea what it is.

Ooh, the Magic Rule. Try pulling this out of your azz during a sanctioned high school game, just once. I dare you. I do it all the time, I'm not afraid to be an official, nor am I afraid to make a judgment in the game that's not clearly defined in the rules. If I'm wrong, so be it. If they don't want to give me any more games because of it. I'll just go back to what I was doing before I started officiating. Life goes on, even if I don't have a game to work tomorrow.

As I told you, in both states I've reffed, this is a state rule. So, it is specifically covered. I would be willing to bet money that it's the same in every state, with minor alterations (such as whether the replacement adult had to be a certified coach, teacher, or just a kind parent with a pulse). The point is it's not written in the rulebook.

If you're going to disregard state rules that don't allow the game to continue when one team doesn't have a coach; why are you going to report the ejections? Nothing in the rules says you're supposed to.

I don't disregard anything. I merely make a decision and move on, and sometimes, I make a mistake, sometimes, I get it wrong. Not the end of the world to me. I just move on and try not to make that same mistake again.

Referee's don't have to be perfect, they just have to be consistent!

dblref

bob jenkins wrote
I'd suggest that you contact the State (VA?) Association and see how to handle it in your state.

Please don't put this dumba** in VA. We have our share of poor officials, but nothing as bad as him/her.

Jurassic Referee

dblref wrote
Please don't put this dumba** in VA. We have our share of poor officials, but nothing as bad as him/her.

Relax.😃

No matter what state he's in(probably the state of confusion), he's certainly not representative of the officials in that state.

Adam

Old School wrote
I don't disregard anything. I merely make a decision and move on, and sometimes, I make a mistake, sometimes, I get it wrong. Not the end of the world to me. I just move on and try not to make that same mistake again.

In order to learn from a mistake, you have to admit it was a mistake. You're not doing that here; you're still justifying using 2-3 to continue a game that states generally say must be ended by forfeit. Unless you can tell me your state doens't require the forfeit here, you are disregarding the rules.

You've previously mentioned bending the rules to avoid any chance at a lawsuit. You want to see a lawsuit, try finishing a game without a coach and having a kid get hurt. Who's going to come out on the court to tend to him, the captain?

It's not about being "afraid to be an official." It's about taking the time to know the basic rules, for crying out loud.

Old School

Snaqwells wrote
You've previously mentioned bending the rules to avoid any chance at a lawsuit. You want to see a lawsuit, try finishing a game without a coach and having a kid get hurt. Who's going to come out on the court to tend to him, the captain?

The trainer. The lawyer will sue the coach for getting tossed and not being there to coach his kid. Then the lawyer can sue the A/D for hiring an incompetent staff where all of them got ejected, or for not having an assistant present at the game. Then if they still want to sue, they can sue the school for not making sure an adult was present to monitor the players. Last, they can come after me, but that won't get them very far because I'm an independent contractor and I got no money.

Adam

The only reason I'm even responding to you is to make sure that newer officials don't think they can actually follow your inane advice.
The trainer? You mean the kid that tapes ankles and fills the water cups? No chance in my game. If the trainer is an adult, then he's probably already coaching the team at this point. Fine with me, you've got an adult who's likely certified to finish the game as coach.

rainmaker

Old School wrote
The trainer. The lawyer will sue the coach for getting tossed and not being there to coach his kid. Then the lawyer can sue the A/D for hiring an incompetent staff where all of them got ejected, or for not having an assistant present at the game. Then if they still want to sue, they can sue the school for not making sure an adult was present to monitor the players. Last, they can come after me, but that won't get them very far because I'm an independent contractor and I got no money.

Now we all KNOW without any further cavil, that you do not live in the real world. A kid gets hurt in a game and the parents are going to sue the coach for being ejected?!?! You really need to start reading the Law Times, or Sports Law Updates.

I beg all officials everywhere to ignore this advice that s/he's giving. To be covered for the lawsuit possibilities you need to carry liability insurance for every game you work, and you need to follow their guidelines for avoiding problems. Do not, I repeat, do not just "wing it". Do not rely on common sense (since). It simply doesn't carry enough weight in court.

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