Center Toss

Back In The Saddle

Old School wrote
I think if I allowed you to tip the ball with 2 hands, that would count as 2 touches and you better not touch the ball again, until it is touched by a non-jumper or hits the floor.

I also think you need to get out more......

And just why do you think that? 😕

M&M Guy

Old School wrote
(deleted by moderator)

So, um, how come you haven't answered the questions posed to you by other posters, including me? If you dislike what other posters have said, make your point and move on to the discussion at hand. But if you continue to ignore legitimate questions and just call names, you are proving his point.

bob jenkins

Old School wrote
I think if I allowed you to tip the ball with 2 hands, that would count as 2 touches

Still wrong. Read the case plays.

M&M Guy

...edited by...

Thanks, Bob. For someone who has only posted a couple of times, it was already getting out of control.

Old School

Who's out of control, me or you?

Here's the deal. When I work basketball games, I want to see basketball plays. I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case? When you start doing stuff like that, that's not basketball and the caution flag goes up. Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court.

So deep in the case book, it is ruled legal. Great! That's just what we all need to know. I don't think it does anyone any good to get to carried away with issues like this that's never likely to occur.

Peace

JRutledge

Old School wrote
Who's out of control, me or you?

Here's the deal. When I work basketball games, I want to see basketball plays. I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case? When you start doing stuff like that, that's not basketball and the caution flag goes up. Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court.

Just because something is unusual, does not make it illegal. It is not illegal to tap the ball with both hands at the same time. Unless you can show us something, I am not sure how you can call a violation for that action. I will agree that it is not usually seen, but this would be like calling a violation for something you do not see very often.

Peace

Jurassic Referee

Old School wrote
Who's out of control, me or you?

Here's the deal. When I work basketball games, I want to see basketball plays. I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case? When you start doing stuff like that, that's not basketball and the caution flag goes up. Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court.

So deep in the case book, it is ruled legal. Great! That's just what we all need to know. I don't think it does anyone any good to get to carried away with issues like this that's never likely to occur.

Is tipping a rebound into the basket with two hands a non-basketball play too?

Is tipping a rebound to a teammate with two hands a non-basketball play too?

Is tipping a pass to a teammate with two hands a non-basketball play too?

Is tipping the ball back in-bounds with two hands while saving it from going out-of-bounds a non-basketball play too?

Want me to keep going?

JThomas, you've never officiated a regular basketball game in your life.:rolleyes:

Btw, what is the rule book definition of a "tip" and where may I find it in the NFHS rule book?

M&M Guy

Old School wrote
Who's out of control, me or you?

Easy answer right now.

Old School wrote
When I work basketball games,

Good, you've finally answered that. So, what level do you work?

Old School wrote
I want to see basketball plays. I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case?

Actually, yes. HS girls, one of the jumpers was taller than me (I'm 6'). The other girl decided not to jump, because she knew she was out-manned. (Oops, bad choice of words.) The tap goes over the shorter girl's head, and she puts both arms up to block/defend, and the ball hits both hands. What would your call be in that instance, and why?

Old School wrote
Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court.

So, is that your answer to my previous question - would you eject the player for playing volleyball instead of basketball?

Old School wrote
So deep in the case book, it is ruled legal. Great! That's just what we all need to know. I don't think it does anyone any good to get to carried away with issues like this that's never likely to occur.

Actually, it is good to know. If an official has a good knowledge of the rules, they will be able to handle that once-or-twice in a lifetime call.

tjones1

But really thinking...

Jurassic Referee

tjones1 wrote
But really thinking...

Mmmmmmm.......

bob jenkins

Old School wrote
I have never seen a jumper go up on a jump and tap it with both hands, never. Can you name a case?

Happened already this year. Both jumpers hit the ball, then when the ball came down, one of them hit it with both hands (simultaneously). Fortunately, my partner knew the rule and didn't blow the whistle.

M&M Guy

tjones1 wrote

But really thinking...

Tanner - good job!

Dang it though; you made me drool on my keyboard.

Old School

I totally agree with you RUT. However, none of these points that the others mention or related to the center toss. I was referring to the jump ball, not a rebound, not a pass to a teammate because the jumper can't pass it to a teammate. When you jump up to tip the ball, it is 99.99999999% tip'd with one hand. Why the rulebook has that .00000001% case is a mystery to me.

It all gets back to using the correct procedure like I said orginally. The basic theory behind the jump ball is the have the highest jumper tip the ball to a teammate. This use to be a special honor for a player. It is all about who can jump the highest. I believe that there is no one in the game of bb that will tell you, they can jump higher with 2 hands up then with 1. I also believe there is no coach that will teach the proper mechanic for the jump ball is to jump with 2 hands either. The key is to throw the ball so these jumpers will have to jump as high as they can to tip the jump ball. If you don't throw it up high enough, then I suppose a 2-hand tap will work, but that's more a poor toss. In the case of the girl protecting herself and just trying to get her hands on the ball. Poor technique if you ask me.

Back In The Saddle

Old School wrote
Are we playing volleyball today, or are we playing bb? I'm here to ref bb, so volleyball players please leave the court.

Having just finished my first year of reffing volleyball, I have to say that while it would be unusual to see volleyball ball-handling techniques used in a basketball game, I can't think of any that would be illegal (well, contact with the leg or foot, but I've only seen that done deliberately out of desperation).

Bump, set, spike, and tapping the ball with two hands -- they're all legal, even if never done.

j51969

All I see in rule 6-3 is as long as prior to the jump all the requirements have been met, no jumper shall touch the ball more than twice. Even if you counted each hand individually it would still be two touches. This is truely a goof play that happens once in a lifetime.

Smitty

Old School wrote
I believe that there is no one in the game of bb that will tell you, they can jump higher with 2 hands up then with 1. I also believe there is no coach that will teach the proper mechanic for the jump ball is to jump with 2 hands either. The key is to throw the ball so these jumpers will have to jump as high as they can to tip the jump ball. If you don't throw it up high enough, then I suppose a 2-hand tap will work, but that's more a poor toss. In the case of the girl protecting herself and just trying to get her hands on the ball. Poor technique if you ask me.

Who cares?

Adam

Old School wrote
I totally agree with you RUT. However, none of these points that the others mention or related to the center toss. I was referring to the jump ball, not a rebound, not a pass to a teammate because the jumper can't pass it to a teammate. When you jump up to tip the ball, it is 99.99999999% tip'd with one hand. Why the rulebook has that .00000001% case is a mystery to me.

It all gets back to using the correct procedure like I said orginally. The basic theory behind the jump ball is the have the highest jumper tip the ball to a teammate. This use to be a special honor for a player. It is all about who can jump the highest. I believe that there is no one in the game of bb that will tell you, they can jump higher with 2 hands up then with 1. I also believe there is no coach that will teach the proper mechanic for the jump ball is to jump with 2 hands either. The key is to throw the ball so these jumpers will have to jump as high as they can to tip the jump ball. If you don't throw it up high enough, then I suppose a 2-hand tap will work, but that's more a poor toss. In the case of the girl protecting herself and just trying to get her hands on the ball. Poor technique if you ask me.

This may or may not all be true, but it's irrelevant to an official. We don't officiate technique; that's called coaching.
And whether the jumpers hit it with two hands has nothing to do with the quality of the toss. Both jumpers may mis-time their jumps and the ball may be well on the way down when they hit it.

I'm having visions of Ace Ventura bending over to talk to his supervisor here.

j51969

Maybe your right, who does care. But it seems to me the thing that seperates officials, is getting the obscure call correct and being able to explain it. Thier are a lot of good officials, and something has to seperate you from them. Knowledge of the rules and how to apply them seems like a good start. Lots of officials look great out on the court, and then are lost once the game starts. This forum and these discussions, however trivial are where that begins. I'm new to this site and enjoy the topical debate on such things. Just my opinion.

Jurassic Referee

j51969 wrote
But it seems to me the thing that seperates officials, is getting the obscure call correct and being able to explain it.

That is not really an obscure call though. You're talking about a definition that is relevant to several different situations, not just the opening jump ball. This rules concept comes up during rebounding, saving balls from going OOB, etc., as I listed before. You have to know what player control is, and how it applies to the different situations. See rule 4-15-4NOTE2. That says that there is no player control when a player is slapping the ball during a jump, or batting a rebound or pass away from another player. .

Don't drink the Kool-Aid from the old non-official that is posting in this thread. You would be very wise to completely disregard everything that he says.

"He knoweth not what he speaks!".🙂

Jurassic Referee

Old School wrote
I was referring to the jump ball, not a rebound, not a pass to a teammate because the jumper can't pass it to a teammate.

Another good one.🙂

Right from the rulebook-- "a pass is movement of the ball caused by the player who throws, bats, or rolls the ball to another player".

The jumper can't bat the ball to a teammate, eh?:rolleyes:

If you had a rulebook, you might have known that one, Old Troll.

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