ump interference

BigUmp56

LLPA13UmpDan wrote
What is the pentaly for umpire interferce anyways?

If he's hit with a batted ball over fair territory the ball is immediately dead and all runners are returned. If he interferes with the catchers attempt to retire a runner the ball is delayed dead. You wait and see if the runner is retired, and if so, you disregard the interference. If a runner isn't retired the ball is dead and runners are returned.

Tim.

TCump84

BigUmp56 wrote
If he's hit with a batted ball over fair territory the ball is immediately dead and all runners are returned. If he interferes with the catchers attempt to retire a runner the ball is delayed dead. You wait and see if the runner is retired, and if so, you disregard the interference. If a runner isn't retired the ball is dead and runners are returned.

Tim.

When he an umpire is hit by a batted ball before it passes an infielder OTHER THAN the pitcher it is dead immediately and runners return UNLESS forced to advance by batter becoming runner due to him completing his time at bat. If an umpire is hit by a batted ball AFTER it is touched by an infielder INCLUDING the pitcher, the ball is alive and in play.You are Correct on the ruling if interfering with the catchers throw.

Clint Lawson

How does he run into the umpire here? I assume it is three man. But I still can't think of how he could run into the first base umpire.

BigUmp56

2 outs - U3 in C goes out on a trouble ball to the gap?

U2 has head inserted, gets a late start to the infield to make the pivot and runs into BR?

Tim.

Old Time Ump

This will probably earn a 'Ridiculous' award from some of the young lads here, but on the two occasions when this happened, 7.06 was invoked by the PU. In both cases the League upheld that decision. The ruling was that 'Obstructed' does not exclude an Umpire or even a fan coming onto the field..the 'Fairness factor', you know.
If anyone here has actually called this play the way you call it in your statements here, could you please describe the runner's manager's reaction?

SanDiegoSteve

Well, I've never had a runner run into me or any partner of mine. If I had, I would rule that the contact is irrelevant too.

Old Timer, please cite the league you are referring to, as well as details about the situation? Umpires cannot obstruct, and they are not in the same category as fans, either.

And just why would we be concerned with the runner's manager's reaction? If he reacted inappropriately, he would probably get tossed, just as he should. The last thing on my mind in a baseball game is what the managers, players, and coaches think about anything. They usually have to be told what to think anyway.

The 'Ridiculous' award comes from this 50 year-young lad.

Tim C

Some just come here to prove they're ignorant of rules.

You just answered one of them.

He'll not give details cuz that means it could be checked out.

WE ALL KNOW the rules of umpire interference -- only one here is left to be ignorant.

Regards,

GarthB

BigUmp56 wrote
If he's hit with a batted ball over fair territory the ball is immediately dead and all runners are returned. If he interferes with the catchers attempt to retire a runner the ball is delayed dead. You wait and see if the runner is retired, and if so, you disregard the interference. If a runner isn't retired the ball is dead and runners are returned.

Tim.

Yes, runners return, however to complete the answer, unless forced to advance.

6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when-

(d)A fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder.

Old Time Ump

"Umpires can't Obstruct"? Now there is one for the books! And Umpire Interference is not the issue in this thread at all. And I believe it was Frank Umont hurrying in from the outer edge of the infield (that was the appropriate 'mechanics' in those days in the American) who tripped and fell on a runner attempting to steal second about six feet short of the bag. Frank was a huge man who didnt have a lot of mobility and the runner was stopped dead in his tracks. What would you have done?
And by the way, those definitions and interpretations which are now published in the Rules Book were not distributed or even codified then. 'Thank Gawd!
And the reason I asked about the runner's manager was I was curious to know if you survived.
I leave you now, 'cause there is no help for either of us.

GarthB

Old Time Ump wrote
This will probably earn a 'Ridiculous' award from some of the young lads here,

And not just from the young lads, but from mature lads as well.

but on the two occasions when this happened, 7.06 was invoked by the PU. In both cases the League upheld that decision. The ruling was that 'Obstructed' does not exclude an Umpire or even a fan coming onto the field..the 'Fairness factor', you know.

Both cases? That would mean that this has happend just twice in the entire history of baseball. Obviously, then, those times must stand out in your mind. Please let me know when these two instances occurred and who was involved and which league upheld a ruling contrary to the rules.
Oh, and 7.06? You mean obstruction? You mean: OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

If anyone here has actually called this play the way you call it in your statements here, could you please describe the runner's manager's reaction?

Do you give manager's a survey asking them future reactions about each potential call you may need to make and then decide whether or not to follow the rules based on their reactions?

You need to change your moniker to "old time troll."

SAump

Old Time Ump wrote
This will probably earn a 'Ridiculous' award from some of the young lads here, but on the two occasions when this happened, 7.06 was invoked by the PU. In both cases the League upheld that decision. The ruling was that 'Obstructed' does not exclude an Umpire or even a fan coming onto the field..the 'Fairness factor', you know.
If anyone here has actually called this play the way you call it in your statements here, could you please describe the runner's manager's reaction?

You nailed it. Let's see if they back away or steer another direction.😃

SanDiegoSteve

Old Time Ump wrote
I believe it was Frank Umont hurrying in from the outer edge of the infield (that was the appropriate 'mechanics' in those days in the American) who tripped and fell on a runner attempting to steal second about six feet short of the bag.

I'd love to hear all about this mechanic. You mean on a steal attempt, the umpire is to run in from the outfield grass line and try to beat the runner to the inside to make the call? Sounds kinda screwy to me.

Old Time Ump wrote
Frank was a huge man who didnt have a lot of mobility and the runner was stopped dead in his tracks. What would you have done?

First, this wouldn't have happened to me. But let's say it did:

"Time! I'm big fat Frank Umont who shouldn't be in professional baseball, God where's my spare hot dog? You, Mr. Runner are out. Where's my cigarettes??? Oh, there they are. Thank God, I thought I'd lost 'em, jeez. Anyways, as I was sayin', your out Mr. Base Runner, and I should go drop a few hundred pounds and come back when I'm not so freakin' uncoordinated. I'll see youse later."

Old Time Ump wrote
And the reason I asked about the runner's manager was I was curious to know if you survived.

I've had managers and coaches ream my butt up one side and down the other, and finished each and every game on the field, which these managers and coaches did not accomplish.🙂

GarthB

SanDiegoSteve wrote
I've had managers and coaches ream my butt up one side and down the other..

And yet, you still end up in the hospital.😃

Maybe you just aren't making enough tough calls?

GarthB

SAump wrote
You nailed it.

Does this mean you have some information to back up the OTU's story? Let's have it.

Let's see if they back away or steer another direction.😃

Hey, if I get answers to my emails to MLB and WUA, I'll be happy to post them, no matter the content.

As of now, a search of Frank provides everything from his eyeglasses to ejections of Weaver and Martin and includes his written recommendations that umpires should still be able to fine players and coache and even his shoe size. One would think a ground breaking use of Obstruction to include an umpire falling on a runner would be there someplace...not so far.

Anyway, keep you posted on any answer I get from the proper authorities.

SanDiegoSteve

GarthB wrote
And yet, you still end up in the hospital.😃

Maybe you just aren't making enough tough calls?

Oh, I'm out now guys. Thanks for all the kind words!

I haven't had a really good butt-chewing from a coach in a few months now, so I guess my immunity to them was a bit low.

Old Time Ump

Mr. Steve and Mr. Garth,

Please ....Until about 1965 American League umpires positioned themselves on the edge of the outfield grass a little to the right of 2nd with a runner on first. On an attempted steal you moved in toward the 2 bag shaded toward 1st but still on the outside of the base line. It was thought to be a better position than the National Laeague 'mechanic' which positioned on the inside. You can check this all out easily. Umont who was an excellent umpire in the Amer. for about 20 years was a former pro football tackle. It was easy enough to stumble as approaching the play..and that's what happened.

Mr. Garth, I said I had only seen it twice....the other one involved me in the Winter League in the islands when I got involved in a run down between 3rd and Home.

And that's why I asked if you all survived similar situations..LOL

Good Day

GarthB

Old Time Ump wrote
Mr. Steve and Mr. Garth,

Who'd a thunk you'd ever see those names linked?

Please ....Until about 1965 American League umpires positioned themselves on the edge of the outfield grass a little to the right of 2nd with a runner on first. On an attempted steal you moved in toward the 2 bag shaded toward 1st but still on the outside of the base line. It was thought to be a better position than the National Laeague 'mechanic' which positioned on the inside.

Reading is fundamental. I never challenged you on the mechanic. I am aware of the history of mechanics, thanks anyway.

Umont who was an excellent umpire in the Amer. for about 20 years was a former pro football tackle.

yada yada yada...yes, that is all well known and that he and Rommell became the first umpires to wear glasses in 1956.

It was easy enough to stumble as approaching the play..and that's what happened.

Even that is not the point. What I have sent requests for is the ruling made and the basis for the ruling. I doubt 7.06 would be the basis for umpire interference or even your claim of "fairness".

Mr. Garth, I said I had only seen it twice....the other one involved me in the Winter League in the islands when I got involved in a run down between 3rd and Home.

No, that's not what you said. You said: "on the two occasions when this happened," clearly implying that this has happened twice. And you referred to a ruling in both cases based on 7.06 being approved by THE League, (singular) clearly implying both cases occurred in the same league.

And that's why I asked if you all survived similar situations..LOL

And no one has an idea of what you are implying here, but that's okay, could be an age issue.

Jurassic Referee

GarthB wrote
And no one has an idea of what you are implying here, but that's okay, could be an age issue.

Say hello to JThomas, a troll from both the McGriff basketball and baseball boards. Ask ol' J to recite something out of a rule book; unfortunately the poor old goof doesn't own one.

He is kinda mildly amusing though.

SanDiegoSteve

Old Time Ump wrote
Until about 1965 American League umpires positioned themselves on the edge of the outfield grass a little to the right of 2nd with a runner on first. On an attempted steal you moved in toward the 2 bag shaded toward 1st but still on the outside of the base line. It was thought to be a better position than the National Laeague 'mechanic' which positioned on the inside. You can check this all out easily. Umont who was an excellent umpire in the Amer. for about 20 years was a former pro football tackle. It was easy enough to stumble as approaching the play..and that's what happened.

This is what I remember the mechanic to be from all the old video footage I've seen (I was watching baseball back then, but too young to remember umpire mechanics). What you originally said was that Umont tripped and fell on the runner, which led me to wonder why he was anywhere near the runner's base line to start with. Now that I read that he stumbled as approaching the play I can see how this could possibly happen.

umpduck11

Old Time Ump wrote
"And Umpire Interference is not the issue in this thread at all.

My, that's odd. I'd swear the title of this thread
said it was....... 😕