OBR Ambidexterous pitcher

jxt127

6.06 (b) The batter is out if he steps from one box to the other while the pitcher is ready to pitch.

Actually had this happen last Thursday.

Dave Hensley

jxt127 wrote
6.06 (b) The batter is out if he steps from one box to the other while the pitcher is ready to pitch.

Actually had this happen last Thursday.

The key phrase in your rule cite is "while the pitcher is ready to pitch." Until the pitcher assumes a legal pitching position, the batter is free to step into either batter's box and prepare to hit. Unless, that is, the pitcher happens to be ambidextrous, in which case different rules codes have different rulings for preventing an endless loop.

jxt127

Oh I agree Dave.

Pete in AZ

Bear with me guys, I was a lawyer and am a teacher so words have a particular significance to me. You are killing Peter for Paul's crimes. It makes no difference if the pitcher is ambidextrous or not. Once he has assumed his place on the rubber, if the batter switches boxes, he is out. The pitcher has restrictions on his actions as does the batter. The pitcher has legally engaged the pitching rubber and is ready to pitch (it says nothing about having to be set) when the batter changes boxes; OUT! JJ was speaking of OBR, so that is what we should be speaking to. I only see a dozen HS games a year and don't have that book here, does HS allow this? College and Pros don't, so what rule code are you referring to? Bob agreed that umpire judgement is involved, but this is pretty cut and dry. If the pitcher isn't on the rubber, the guy can switch on every pitch if he wants to.

Dave Hensley

Pete in AZ wrote
Bear with me guys, I was a lawyer and am a teacher so words have a particular significance to me. You are killing Peter for Paul's crimes. It makes no difference if the pitcher is ambidextrous or not. Once he has assumed his place on the rubber, if the batter switches boxes, he is out. The pitcher has restrictions on his actions as does the batter. The pitcher has legally engaged the pitching rubber and is ready to pitch (it says nothing about having to be set) when the batter changes boxes; OUT! JJ was speaking of OBR, so that is what we should be speaking to. I only see a dozen HS games a year and don't have that book here, does HS allow this? College and Pros don't, so what rule code are you referring to? Bob agreed that umpire judgement is involved, but this is pretty cut and dry. If the pitcher isn't on the rubber, the guy can switch on every pitch if he wants to.

Well, no offense Pete but the rules were written by and for gentlemen, not lawyers. "In position ready to pitch" can reasonably be interpreted to mean when the pitcher has assumed a legal pitching position - windup or set. Think of it this way - at any point in which the umpire would logically grant the batter a request for time, then the batter can do that and switch to the other box. He can do this repeatedly, UNLESS the pitcher switches handedness (which only happens when the pitcher is ambidextrous.)

The purpose of rule 6.06(b) is to keep the batter from disconcerting the pitcher or causing him to balk. It's very rarely encountered, and any umpire who's looking to call an out on a batter who wants to switch handedness is very likely dabbling in over-officiousness.

SAump

What rule allows the batter to switch boxes on a whim? If the batter switches boxes, then the pitcher if he so chooses may allow his defense to move to other positions. Time would be appropriate. If you grant the batter time to switch boxes repeatedly, then you are also granting the defense time to adjust their positioning.

Someone recognizes the importance of placing time limits on this endless loop. The pitcher must first declare. The switch hitter then makes a decision. He may switch during the course of an at-bat, but he may not switch after each and every pitch. If others allow the batter to switch after every pitch, then that will tell me what kind of game their having. Gentlemen, behave here.

Hope my partner never switches places after every pitch. NO. You can't do that. You stay where you are.

Pete in AZ

SAump wrote
What rule allows the batter to switch boxes on a whim? If the batter switches boxes, then the pitcher if he so chooses may allow his defense to move to other positions. Time would be appropriate. If you grant the batter time to switch boxes repeatedly, then you are also granting the defense time to adjust their positioning.

Someone recognizes the importance of placing time limits on this endless loop. The pitcher must first declare. The switch hitter then makes a decision. He may switch during the course of an at-bat, but he may not switch after each and every pitch. If others allow the batter to switch after every pitch, then that will tell me what kind of game their having. Gentlemen, behave here.

Hope my partner never switches places after every pitch. NO. You can't do that. You stay where you are.

Then you would be wrong. The rule book clearly permits a batter to switch boxes as long as he doesn't do it while the pitcher is on the rubber and ready to pitch. We have had this discussion many times before. I don't like to participate in all the discussions but this one is pretty clear. As I said, I don't have any trouble calling the guy out if the pitcher complies with his restrictions. If the batter is doing this to rile the pitcher and his coach doesn't know the rule, I'm not there to do his job. If he comes out and asks me why I allow it, I may say that he can do it all he wants since his pitcher is not on the rubber and ready. Wanna bet that the defensive coach does his job and then I can do mine.

NO. You can't do that. You stay where you are.

That is the sign of an OOO. Then you'll have the offensive coach telling you that you don't know the rules very well. I apologize if that offends, but your interp is wrong.

JJ

After looking through the OBR, I find no rule that PROHIBITS a batter from switching between every pitch, if he so chooses - only the rule that says the ambidexterous pitcher must declare and remain if a switch-hitter steps to the plate and wants to switch.
I accept the PBUC note as backup for a ruling. Thanks.

SAump

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

edited to add emphasis

cbfoulds

SAump wrote
Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are SEVEN EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies ONLY if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

SAump wrote
Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

I'm calling BS on that one.

SAump

cbfoulds wrote
Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are SEVEN EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies ONLY if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

I'm calling BS on that one.

ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat. Box is singular. Batter is entitled to ONE, not both.

Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

Pete in AZ

SAump wrote
Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

What is a National Association League?

I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

JJ, where did you find the ambidextrous pitcher ruling? I can believe that the guy can't switch hands to deliver, but short of having two gloves this seems pretty unrealistic.

SAump

Pete in AZ wrote
What is a National Association League?
I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Dave Hensley

SAump wrote
Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Because there's no practical or strategic reason for doing so, NOT because it is against the rules.

bob jenkins

SAump wrote
What rule allows the batter to switch boxes on a whim? [/B]

We've already answered this, SA. 6.06(b) prohibits the batter from switching places when the pitcher is ready to pitch. A reasonable assumption is that the batter can switch before the pitcher is ready to pitch.

ctblu40

Pete in AZ wrote
What is a National Association League?

FYI- A National Association League is any league that is a member of The National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues (ie Minor League Baseball Leagues except the Indy leagues).

GarthB

SAump wrote
Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Becaue they only do it when when the pitcher throws a rising fastball. 😀

cbfoulds

SAump wrote
ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat.

which helps your argument, HOW?

SAump wrote
Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Where in the Rule does it say he must remain in the SAME box "throughout ..."? Ain't there that I can see. So, I'll pick "Otherwise, [you (SAump) are] wrong."

SAump wrote
Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

Default condition in Baseball: if it is not, by Rule, prohibited - it is permitted. There are darn few exceptions to this principle: can't think of one, off-hand. Absent a penalty [of which there is NONE here, unless a delay of game is created], no reasonable person can even argue for an implied prohibition.
I'm NOT disapointed: your lack of knowledge or insight into the Rules and customs of the game of baseball as shown in this thread is exactly as I have come to expect from you.

SAump

(2) The batter may leave the batter’s box and the dirt area surrounding home plate when “Time” is called for the purpose of
(i) making a substitution; or
(ii) a conference by either team.

(2) (i) Batter may switch from one box to another during one at-bat. By rule, he must call time first and allow the defense fair notice. Defense may also acknowledge an unannounced substitution by allowing batter into other box and delivering a pitch. If defense complains about the switch, the UIC should determine whether to allow it or not. UIC, according to rules, customs and traditions; should not allow game delay or unsportmanship behavior to occur. Offense will be warned to "STAY in BOX" and a strike will be awarded after each occurence.

edited to add emphasis

cbfoulds

SAump wrote
(2) The batter may leave the batter’s box and the dirt area surrounding home plate when “Time” is called for the purpose of
(i) making a substitution; or
(ii) a conference by either team.

(2) (i) Batter may switch from one box to another during one at-bat. By rule, he must call time first and allow the defense fair notice. Defense may also acknowledge an unannounced substitution by allowing batter into other box and delivering a pitch. If defense complains about the switch, the UIC should determine whether to allow it or not. UIC, according to rules, customs and traditions; should not allow game delay or unsportmanship behavior to occur. Offense will be warned to "STAY in BOX" and a strike will be awarded after each occurence.

WARNING TO NEWBIES:
SAump is halucinating, again; whether it's DT's or left-handed ciggies, we can't tell you, but the foregoing quoted drivel is applicable and correct only in pink-elephant Calvinball. Suggest you disregard.