Jump stop?

fan

I am clear that when a dribbler controls the ball with one foot on floor than jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet they cannot pivot. However, when a dribbler executes the jump stop but they get control of the ball after jumping off of one foot and then they land with a jump stop. They still can use a pivot foot right? If this is true it seems like it would be hard for an official to judge whether or not they had control with the foot on the floor or off the floor to determine if they get a pivot or not.

Thanks

BktBallRef

Your assessment of what's legal is correct. It's more unusual for a player to gather the ball after jumping. Usually, I see the dribble end as the player steps/jumps. He must then land simultaneously and not pivot. Evenso, I don't guess a travel. Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

jbduke

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Your assessment of what's legal is correct. It's more unusual for a player to gather the ball after jumping. Usually, I see the dribble end as the player steps/jumps. He must then land simultaneously and not pivot. Evenso, I don't guess a travel. Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Regarding your second sentence, this has not been my experience at all, as a player or as an official. Using this move limits momentum much more than the other jump-stop technique; a corollary is that most people jump better off of one foot than two. I agree with your last two sentences 100%.

SmokeEater

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Your assessment of what's legal is correct. It's more unusual for a player to gather the ball after jumping. Usually, I see the dribble end as the player steps/jumps. He must then land simultaneously and not pivot. Evenso, I don't guess a travel. Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Lately, I have been seeing players picking up their dribble as they jump, then land on both feet then jumping/taking a step to take a shot. Legal?

bob jenkins

Originally posted by SmokeEater
Lately, I have been seeing players picking up their dribble as they jump, then land on both feet then jumping/taking a step to take a shot. Legal?

Depends on what you mean by "as they jump."

If both feet are on the floor when the dribble ends, then the play is legal. If one foot is still on the floor, then the play is not legal.

SmokeEater

Yea judgement call, they are running along dribbling, so I would say 1 foot is on the floor when they pick up the dribble. jump and land on both feet then usually jump again or do an up and under move to shoot. It looks wrong some times and other times it looks really smooth.

I get a lot of flack when I call it travel, I have it as a travel every time. Not so with some of my partners. I make a point to discuss it pregame to be sure we are on same page.

tomegun

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Wise words.

Many officials should be forced to write this down and carry it in their pockets at all times!

An error of ommission is better than an error of commission!

BktBallRef

Originally posted by jbduke

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Your assessment of what's legal is correct. It's more unusual for a player to gather the ball after jumping. Usually, I see the dribble end as the player steps/jumps. He must then land simultaneously and not pivot. Evenso, I don't guess a travel. Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Regarding your second sentence, this has not been my experience at all, as a player or as an official. Using this move limits momentum much more than the other jump-stop technique; a corollary is that most people jump better off of one foot than two.

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote. My statement has nothing to do with jumping off one foot or two. #1, you can't legally jump stop off two feet, only one. #2, I see the dribble end and the ball gathered as the player is jumping off his pivot, not after his pivot has already left the floor. That's what I was saying above.

If you did understand me, then I guess our experiences are just different.

ChuckElias

Originally posted by tomegun

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Wise words.

An error of ommission is better than an error of commission!

I would agree with that sentiment. But the other piece of advice that I heard regarding traveling (which I think is very valid) is, "Never let the ballhandler travel into a foul."

In other words, we miss the travel -- ok, not great, but usually not a huge deal -- and then the dribbler immediately gets fouled on the drive. Ugh. Talk about waking up the coach.

Gotta get the ones that we gotta have.

BktBallRef

Originally posted by SmokeEater
Yea judgement call, they are running along dribbling, so I would say 1 foot is on the floor when they pick up the dribble. jump and land on both feet then usually jump again or do an up and under move to shoot. It looks wrong some times and other times it looks really smooth.

I get a lot of flack when I call it travel, I have it as a travel every time. Not so with some of my partners. I make a point to discuss it pregame to be sure we are on same page.

It wouldn't be traveling unless he takes a step. Jumping again is legal, as long as the ball is gone before he returns to the floor.

SmokeEater

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Originally posted by SmokeEater
Yea judgement call, they are running along dribbling, so I would say 1 foot is on the floor when they pick up the dribble. jump and land on both feet then usually jump again or do an up and under move to shoot. It looks wrong some times and other times it looks really smooth.

I get a lot of flack when I call it travel, I have it as a travel every time. Not so with some of my partners. I make a point to discuss it pregame to be sure we are on same page.

It wouldn't be traveling unless he takes a step. Jumping again is legal, as long as the ball is gone before he returns to the floor.

Ok thanks, just to be sure I am understanding what you mean, The up and under move (includes a step ) is illegal, but a jump shot is OK.

BktBallRef

Correct. In your play, once his feet land simultaneously, he can jump and release the ball but he cannot step.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by SmokeEater

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Your assessment of what's legal is correct. It's more unusual for a player to gather the ball after jumping. Usually, I see the dribble end as the player steps/jumps. He must then land simultaneously and not pivot. Evenso, I don't guess a travel. Better to miss one than call one that's not there.

Lately, I have been seeing players picking up their dribble as they jump, then land on both feet then jumping/taking a step to take a shot. Legal?

Lately? That's been going on for 20 years. I recommend that officials learn to do all the elements of legal jumpstop themselves. It makes it easier to recognize everything that isn't what's legal.

SmokeEater

"Lately" mean its becoming more and more prevalent in the games I work. Why the critical tone to the thread it was answered and all is fine. Thanks

[deleted]

This is ironic because we just discussed this at our last meeting, and I am still having difficulty seeing it.

I understand and am fine with the jump stop. No problem. Its when the dribble stops part that I am having trouble seeing. I have played and officiated for years, but still have difficulty visioning a player stoping his dribble AFTER the jump stop procedure starts.

Any (more) help with this?

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by PAOfficial
This is ironic because we just discussed this at our last meeting, and I am still having difficulty seeing it.

I understand and am fine with the jump stop. No problem. Its when the dribble stops part that I am having trouble seeing. I have played and officiated for years, but still have difficulty visioning a player stoping his dribble AFTER the jump stop procedure starts.

Any (more) help with this?

I would suggest focussing on when the player ends the dribble (picks up, or 'controls', the ball). If the player is ON his/her front foot when the ball is picked up, he or she may not pivot after landing. If the player is in the air - having jumped off of one foot - pivot after landing on two feet is permissible.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by SmokeEater
"Lately" mean its becoming more and more prevalent in the games I work. Why the critical tone to the thread it was answered and all is fine. Thanks

Not meant in a critical way. Just surprised.

refTN

Good thread first of all. Secondly if you are having trouble with this don't sweat it at all and don't make it too big of a deal. As soon as you see a jump stop coming and it happens look at the player's feet. There is going to be a little delay in you looking down so if the foot is in the air I would just give the benefit of the doubt of the player being in the air when he/she gathered the ball. In your delayed look you see the player's foot on the floor I would determine the ball is gathered before his foot left the ground.

Also I know it looks weird and I miss it as much as anbody, but upon the gather of the ball after the player has left the ground, he may pivot and in the case of a player leading with one foot right after the other and in advance of the other it is not a walk but it looks like a walk especially if you don't know the rules.

[deleted]

Originally posted by refTN
Also I know it looks weird and I miss it as much as anbody, but upon the gather of the ball after the player has left the ground, he may pivot and in the case of a player leading with one foot right after the other and in advance of the other it is not a walk but it looks like a walk especially if you don't know the rules.

Let me see if I have this right....it isn't a walk when they don't land simultaneously, only if they gather the ball after the player has left the ground, correct? If they land "one-two" after starting the move with the foot on the ground, it is a travel.

refTN

Originally posted by PAOfficial

Originally posted by refTN
Also I know it looks weird and I miss it as much as anbody, but upon the gather of the ball after the player has left the ground, he may pivot and in the case of a player leading with one foot right after the other and in advance of the other it is not a walk but it looks like a walk especially if you don't know the rules.

Let me see if I have this right....it isn't a walk when they don't land simultaneously, only if they gather the ball after the player has left the ground, correct? If they land "one-two" after starting the move with the foot on the ground, it is a travel.

You got it, but just don't judge this too hard. If you have a close one-two landing with the player gathering the ball before he left the ground and the feet land side by side next to each other without one foot in advance of the other, I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't let him/her pivot.