Reset shot clock before FT on correctable error?

Lotto

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

That's another, even more reasonable reason.

That's a dangerous way to start thinking. Team control is lost on an out-of-bounds violation, on a double foul, on a held ball, but the shot-clock is not always reset in these situations. The team that next gains will not always have a full shot-clock to work with.

Mark Dexter

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Originally posted by Lotto

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control.

Again, I think the shot clock should be reset, but I can't come up with a good rule reference as to why.

Dan_ref

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Originally posted by Lotto

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control.

Again, I think the shot clock should be reset, but I can't come up with a good rule reference as to why.

But I already posted a good reason why it should not be reset: in some cases you give a team a shot clock period greater than 35 seconds for free and due to your own error. No way this is an intended consequence.

Reset it if the non-shooting team gets the rebound. Do not reset it when either team consumed time off the shot clock & gets the ball back after the FTs.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by Lotto

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

That's another, even more reasonable reason.

That's a dangerous way to start thinking. Team control is lost on an out-of-bounds violation, on a double foul, on a held ball, but the shot-clock is not always reset in these situations. The team that next gains will not always have a full shot-clock to work with.

Not under the circumstances at issue.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Originally posted by Lotto

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control.

Again, I think the shot clock should be reset, but I can't come up with a good rule reference as to why.

"Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control."

When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not? When it runs again is another issue.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Originally posted by Lotto

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I say reset the clock (2-10-4 in the 2004 rulebook). No change of posession, so you start as after "any normal freethrow." I, for one, have never seen a shot clock at less than 35(30) during a FT.

That was my reasoning, too. But if you look at when the shot-clock operator is supposed to reset (2-14 in the 2006 NCAA rulebook), it's hard to find which situation applies.

It's is? 2-1-4-6b seems to apply: "When a foul occurs (exceptions:" (double or simultaneous foul; T on offense)

Look at it this way -- Team control will be lost on the FTs, so whoever gets the rebound, or inbounds the ball, will have a full shot-clock.

Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control.

Again, I think the shot clock should be reset, but I can't come up with a good rule reference as to why.

Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?

ChuckElias

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not? When it runs again is another issue.

Nope, Jeff. As Mark pointed out, team control is lost when a try is released. But if the try is an airball, there is no reset if control is re-gained by the offensive team.

The short version that I give my HS shot clock operators is as follows:

"There are only 4 times we reset the shot clock. 1) Any change of possession, that includes a made basket. 2) Any time the ball hits the rim on a try. 3) Any foul. 4) A defensive violation, like a kick. That's it. That's the list."

Now, that's simplified, and it's not quite right b/c of the NCAA change in the kick rule's enforcement and NCAA T's that go to the POI. But even if I gave the absolutely correct list, you wouldn't find "loss of team control" on the list anywhere.

ChuckElias

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?

It's not. Not even as a state adoption.

Dan_ref

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

"Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control."

When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not?

Not always.

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?

It's not.

assignmentmaker

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

"Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control."

When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not?

Not always.

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?

It's not.

"When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not?

Not always."

Yah, during a throw-in, for example, when the ball is out off the defense . . .

Still, the whole thing is a tempest in a tea pot.

Dan_ref

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

"Problem is that the shot clock isn't reset on the loss of team control, it is reset when the opponent gains team control."

When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not?

Not always.

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?

It's not.

"When a team loses control, the shot clock is going to be reset, is it not?

Not always."

Yah, during a throw-in, for example, when the ball is out off the defense . . .

That's not a loss of control.

Chuck gave the example I was thinking of.

Mark Dexter

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?
It's not. Not even as a state adoption.

This is why I hate when leagues adopt a shot clock. They never list out the full rules that they want to use for resetting, and they can't just say "use NCAA rules," as those conflict with NFHS rules.

Whenever I do/assist with the shot clock for prep basketball games, my mind is filled with a jumble of NCAA and NFHS rules and interpretations.

Lotto

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Where is the shot clock referenced in Fed rules?
It's not. Not even as a state adoption.

This is why I hate when leagues adopt a shot clock. They never list out the full rules that they want to use for resetting, and they can't just say "use NCAA rules," as those conflict with NFHS rules.

Whenever I do/assist with the shot clock for prep basketball games, my mind is filled with a jumble of NCAA and NFHS rules and interpretations.

NY girls basketball uses NCAA rules, with a few modifications (quarters instead of halves, Ts get ball at division line instead of POI, etc). Our shot clock is run by NCAA rules.

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