Two Steps after Dribble

bwbuddy

In High School, is there a rule that refers to the dribbler being allowed two steps after he picks up his dribble before he shoots or passes?

BktBallRef

There's the jump stop rule that allows the dribbler to end the dribble, jump off one foot and land simultaneously on both feet without being able to pivot or ending the dribble with both feet off the floor and being allow to pivot on the first foot that lands.

mick

As Tony showed, the rule 4-43-2 states a Player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows: a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:

• 2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot

• 3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

mick

bob jenkins

Originally posted by bwbuddy
In High School, is there a rule that refers to the dribbler being allowed two steps after he picks up his dribble before he shoots or passes?

The rule book doesn't refer to "steps." Instead, it refers to "movement of the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits" (or something like that).

Depending on how you're counting, the play you describe is legal -- if the player stops the dribble while both feet are in the air, the player can land on one foot (step 1), put the other on the floor (step 2), lift the first (and the second if desired) and shoot or pass. You'll see this most often on a lay-up. If the player puts the first foot back on the floor, it's a violation.

Nevadaref

Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. That foot is now the pivot foot. The player will then step with the other foot, but if that first foot is lifted and comes back down (for your second step) before the ball is released on a pass or shot, it is a traveling violation.
Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

Adam

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. That foot is now the pivot foot. The player will then step with the other foot, but if that first foot is lifted and comes back down (for your second step) before the ball is released on a pass or shot, it is a traveling violation.
Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

There just aren't enough whistles blown for your satisfaction, are there Nevada? 😀

ChuckElias

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. . . Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

I disagree with this, Nevada. Most kids, even at the 7th/8th grade level, know how to properly shoot a lay-up. I almost never see traveling on an open lay-up, b/c they have the rhythm down right.

w_sohl

Originally posted by bwbuddy
In High School, is there a rule that refers to the dribbler being allowed two steps after he picks up his dribble before he shoots or passes?

I think a good example of what you are refering to is when there is a trap. The ball handler can step through the trap lifting his pivot foot and placing his other foot on the floor, but must PASS or SHOOT the ball before returning his/her pivot foot to the floor. If said player starts a dribble it is then traveling.

FrankHtown

Has anyone made a video teaching the travelling violation? It is, by far, my toughest call. The kids are so quick, and it would be terrific to be able to recognize a travel by sight, and not have to concentrate on "okthisfoottouchedthefloorfirstwhenhepickeduphisdribble todoalay-up. Didn't it?"

cford

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. . . Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

I disagree with this, Nevada. Most kids, even at the 7th/8th grade level, know how to properly shoot a lay-up. I almost never see traveling on an open lay-up, b/c they have the rhythm down right.

I disagree Chuck. If you sit there and watch a lay-up line before the game you will see them travel almost everytime on a layup. It just looks smooth and is never called a travel in a game. I got really good at picking out the pivot foot and started calling this but quickly went back to not calling it. It caused so much confusion and I'm sure my Technical count would increase 5 fold. I realized I wouldn't be doing Varsity ball much longer if I were making those calls.

ChuckElias

Originally posted by cford

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I disagree Chuck. If you sit there and watch a lay-up line before the game you will see them travel almost everytime on a layup.

And in warm-ups, every jump shot is a travel, too. But in the game, they know how to make a lay-up. If your experience is vastly different, I'm going to have to chalk it up to regional differences; b/c that's just not going on around here.

mick

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by cford

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I disagree Chuck. If you sit there and watch a lay-up line before the game you will see them travel almost everytime on a layup.

And in warm-ups, every jump shot is a travel, too. But in the game, they know how to make a lay-up. If your experience is vastly different, I'm going to have to chalk it up to regional differences; b/c that's just not going on around here.

I agree, Chuck.
A running clock cleans stuff U.P.
mick

I have never called a travel during throw-ins or warm-ups.

just another ref

Around here the travel rule is being rewritten on the court every night. I agree with cford that a lot of "ordinary"
lay-ups are travels, even though many of these are smooth
enough and close enough to legal that it would take slow motion to be sure. "If it mighta been a travel it ain't a travel." I let these go. BUT, players watch too much NBA
and other stuff on tv and either hesitate on the first foot or incorporate a ball fake or whatever to the point that the whole process simply takes too long. Also, and maybe even worse, is individual players moves which involve a 360 spin, a drop step, or some imaginary version of the jump stop which often means a long pause on one foot followed by the player taking a broad jump forward, landing with a 1-2 count, and then extending forward from there for the shot.
(did y'all follow all that?) I find when a player makes a move like this, when the whistle blows the offending player has a look of disbelief, and at least one player on the other team is making the travel signal before I am.

rainmaker

Originally posted by cford

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. . . Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

I disagree with this, Nevada. Most kids, even at the 7th/8th grade level, know how to properly shoot a lay-up. I almost never see traveling on an open lay-up, b/c they have the rhythm down right.

I disagree Chuck. If you sit there and watch a lay-up line before the game you will see them travel almost everytime on a layup. It just looks smooth and is never called a travel in a game. I got really good at picking out the pivot foot and started calling this but quickly went back to not calling it. It caused so much confusion and I'm sure my Technical count would increase 5 fold. I realized I wouldn't be doing Varsity ball much longer if I were making those calls.

Ditto. Absolutely 100% my experience. Except I realized I never would call varsity ball if I kept calling that.

Forksref

Originally posted by cford

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Most of the time this action is a travel because the player will end the dribble with one foot on the floor. . . Many officials don't make this call on open lay-ups, even though the player does travel.

I disagree with this, Nevada. Most kids, even at the 7th/8th grade level, know how to properly shoot a lay-up. I almost never see traveling on an open lay-up, b/c they have the rhythm down right.

I disagree Chuck. If you sit there and watch a lay-up line before the game you will see them travel almost everytime on a layup. It just looks smooth and is never called a travel in a game. I got really good at picking out the pivot foot and started calling this but quickly went back to not calling it. It caused so much confusion and I'm sure my Technical count would increase 5 fold. I realized I wouldn't be doing Varsity ball much longer if I were making those calls.

I call it. Players and coaches all know when it is a travel. They just hate to be called on it. The one that drives them nuts is when you don't call it on the "step through" move, where the pivot foot is lifted and the ball is released on a shot before the pivot foot returns to the floor.

Adam

The "step through" is a great move, and most coaches understand that. I've not really caught much grief from not calling that.
I always get more grief in the Jr. High girls or YMCA games where I can't call every travel. It's the one time I think travel is best done as advantage/disadvantage.

Adam