Int. Foul

David B

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Yeah, I saw that in your first post, and didn't mean to make you repeat it, sorry. But is that really all that it says regarding the coach? I thought that there was something else in paragraph form. Maybe it was a comment or something?
Don't mean to be a bother this morning, but this has been bothering me for a few weeks now, since a colleague asked me about it and I couldn't locate it.

There was something issued on the NFHS web site when this POE was put out, if I remember right. I'll look through some old junk- I think that I printed it off at that time to talk about at one of our early meetings that year. Hopefully, I still got it squirreled away someplace. Maybe MTD SR. has got something in the attic and can help out. Mark? Anyway, it said something about telling us that we had to call the intentional foul if the coach was hollering "foul him, foul him", even though the defender might actually foul while making what looked like a legitimate attempt at a steal. The consensus that we came up with, after discussion, was that we were gonna call the play by regular standards--i.e. normal personal foul if the defender played the ball: intentional foul if the defender played the player. Most officiating groups came to the same conclusion, I think, which is why that particular part of the POE was never strictly called as originally written. I think that there was more concern at that time, anyway, by the FED about officials not calling intentional fouls when defenders were wrapping their arms around someone or fouling someone off-ball.

Does that sound just about right for where you were officiating at that time?

I looked for my old notes and can't find them now, but that is how we have interpreted it since that POE was printed.

There is no consideration as to what the coach is saying, we officiate the play and players on the "gotta foul" plays that occur.

Thanks
David

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The NFHS and the NCAA issues POE's yearly. Some items stay a POE for years, some items are there for a year and gone the next. The NFHS 2000-01 POE regarding intentional fouls included a list of actions that are to be considered intentional fouls. The 2004-05 NFHS Rules Book does not list intentional fouls as a POE, but that does not invalidate the list of actions that the NFHS posted in its 2000-01 POE.

I am a firm believer that if Coach B yells for his players to foul and B1 commits, what would normally be a common foul, a foul against A1, that foul is an intentional foul. Have I lived by that rule? Yes. It happened during a boys' H.S. varsity game late in the 2000-01 season. Late in the fourth quarter, Team A has a throw-in in front of Team B's bench after a timeout. A1 inbounds the ball to A2. Coach B tells B2 to foul A2. B2 hacks A2 across the wrist as he attempted to start his dribble. Tweet! Intentional foul on B2. Coach B couldn't believe it and I told him to read this year's POE's. Believe it or not, no technical foul on Coach B.

MTD, Sr.

Tim Roden

Even though I haven't met you Mark, I think by looking at your writtings that I have to beleive your story. You would call it and the coach wouldn't get irrate that it happened.:-)

IREFU2

I was watching the BV game after my game last night and the same situation came up. Team down by one point and they were fouling. The last foul was a wrap and no intentional was called, just a common foul with put the team on the line. So it seems like this is a call the is very seldom made.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Originally posted by Tim Roden
Even though I haven't met you Mark, I think by looking at your writtings that I have to beleive your story. You would call it and the coach wouldn't get irrate that it happened.:-)

I wouldn't say that he wasn't irate, but he was not a very happy camper over the situation. But it is my belief that he didn't press the issue because everybody around us heard him yell at this player to foul the dribbler.

MTD, Sr.

TimTaylor

Originally posted by IREFU2
I was watching the BV game after my game last night and the same situation came up. Team down by one point and they were fouling. The last foul was a wrap and no intentional was called, just a common foul with put the team on the line. So it seems like this is a call the is very seldom made.

Interesting - I've called half a dozen already this season. The most recent was earlier this week - boys game, just under 2 minutes left & visitors up by 8. Visitors are running motion offense with lots of outside passes to take time off the clock, home coach is yelling "foul him", so one of his players grabs opponent with the ball from behind. Mr. Fox sings & I call the X - home coach says rather excitedly "How can you call that intentional, we were just trying to stop the clock?" to which I replied "which by rule is an intentional foul".

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