IBB or UNR?

Snake~eyes

Originally posted by DJ
I totally disagree that unsportsmanlike acts cannot involve contact. If I see a person hit someone that is not involved with a play because the ball is downfield and it happens once I will tell them that the next one will be unsportmanlike and I will eject them. Taking cheapshots at unsuspecting players is about as dangerous and unsporting as it gets and I will not hesitate to give them opportunity to sit and think about their actions.

You can disagree but to be blunt, you are wrong.

Bob M.

Originally posted by DJ
I totally disagree that unsportsmanlike acts cannot involve contact. If I see a person hit someone that is not involved with a play because the ball is downfield and it happens once I will tell them that the next one will be unsportmanlike and I will eject them. Taking cheapshots at unsuspecting players is about as dangerous and unsporting as it gets and I will not hesitate to give them opportunity to sit and think about their actions.

REPLY: You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it needs to be addressed to both the NCAA and the National Federation and not the members of this discussion board. Both are on record (I quoted the rules above) saying that such actions are personal fouls. As for your final point, you can always rule it a flagrant personal foul and invite the offender to have a seat.

jumpmaster

How can a cheap shot to the back not be flagrant? If B55 hits A71 who is obviously out of the play, i.e. walking down field behind the ball, how is this not flagrant?

If you have two guys run into each other and they go down, no foul, they are both engaged in the game - this may warrant a 'knock it off'.

Snake~eyes

Originally posted by jumpmaster
How can a cheap shot to the back not be flagrant? If B55 hits A71 who is obviously out of the play, i.e. walking down field behind the ball, how is this not flagrant?

I agree that it is "flagrant" but I think I would have a problem ejecting someone for this, I'd have to see the shot though.

DJ

And from now on I will call them very "unsportsmanlike," flagrant personal fouls! You are correct and thanks for the clarification.

jumpmaster

at what point do you eject? and guys - "flagrant" doesn't work. Define the point that this cheap shot becomes flagrant vs not flagrant.

DJ

If I warn and see the same I will eject. I play a pretty good game of "Texas Hold Em" and I will call your bluff and pay to see your cards. If I have a chance, I will always try to work with people but sometimes when they are taking advantage of you then you do what you have to do. If you do not take care of the problem during your game then you just pass your problem on to the next crew at the next game. I think it is important that we all do our share and I like to take a leadership role when it comes to working with the coaches and players. We also cover good sportsmanship in our meeting with the captains and our coaches come to the meeting of the captains. We also address the language issues because in this part of the country we still believe in curbing the swearing in high school games. Some people take the easy way out when it comes to these issues and ignore them and hope they go away but I do not believe it is the right thing to do.

North Pole Alaska Ref

Flagrant, a non-football play.

Snake~eyes

Originally posted by jumpmaster
at what point do you eject? and guys - "flagrant" doesn't work. Define the point that this cheap shot becomes flagrant vs not flagrant.

It can be a judgement call. Punches and kicks are easy calls. Other than that I would have to go with a personal foul before the ejection, like the cheap shot you described. This is a big gray area and every officials answer is going to be different. Flagarant USC include calling me a mother f***er, throwing a football at me intentionall, the kind of stuff. There are infinite answers.

SJoldguy

[but WH decides to go with Illegal Block in the Back (IBB).

Did the WH change your call on his own or did he convince you to change it?

I'd have to discuss after the game with any WH any change in my call. If he didn't see it or convince you to change it, he overstepped his bounds.

cowbyfan1

Originally posted by jumpmaster
How can a cheap shot to the back not be flagrant? If B55 hits A71 who is obviously out of the play, i.e. walking down field behind the ball, how is this not flagrant?

If you have two guys run into each other and they go down, no foul, they are both engaged in the game - this may warrant a 'knock it off'.

I have seen then just give a bump to knock them off their feet. Now if the unsuspecting player gets plastered then I would go with flagrent and eject.

If it is a case of 2 players playing chicken then a good "knock it off" is all that is needed.

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