What is the Remedy When Tipoff is in Wrong Direction.?

BillyMac

so cal lurker wrote
It can never be just the players that screwed up. If only the players screwed up, the referees would have called a 10 second violation or a back court violation.

Agree. So let's say that the officials are also "fooled" and don't figure it out until several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams, into the game?

I know what I would do using common sense and fairness, but what would we do by the book?

If discovered within seconds (warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, no backcourt) with only one basket scored, I'm counting the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered.

But several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams?

ilyazhito

Raymond wrote
Why do you think restarting the game should be an option?

It is in the NBA, if less than 24 seconds have elapsed.

However, for high school (and college) basketball, all activity counts, and teams will be lined up in the correct direction, even if it means that 1 team will have an end line throw-in after a score into its proper frontcourt.

BillyMac

Oh, I almost forgot.

No more jump balls.

Start the game by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and use the alternating possession arrow after that, even to start any overtimes.

Also, a preemptive post to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: "Shut up".

sdoebler

So this is discovered after Team A scores a basket. Do you give the ball to Team B on the end line nearest to the basket they are trying to score for a spot throw in or do you march them to the other end in which they can run along the end line?

Edit: I see ilyazhito answered my question, is there rule reference?

Raymond

sdoebler wrote
So this is discovered after Team A scores a basket. Do you give the ball to Team B on the end line nearest to the basket they are trying to score for a spot throw in or do you march them to the other end in which they can run along the end line?

Edit: I see ilyazhito answered my question, is there rule reference?

I'm sure there is a case play somewhere, but it also falls under the category of common sense. We're fixing the direction. After a made basket, the opponent has a throw-in at the opposite end of the court from its own basket. So if recognized after a made basket, correct the direction and put ball in play where it would normally be put in play after a made basket.

sdoebler

Raymond wrote
I'm sure there is a case play somewhere, but it also falls under the category of common sense. We're fixing the direction. After a made basket, the opponent has a throw-in at the opposite end of the court from its own basket. So if recognized after a made basket, correct the direction and put ball in play where it would normally be put in play after a made basket.

I think we are on the same page that they should take the ball to the other end for the throw in but he is stating that you would have a throw in right under the basket you are trying to score on.

LRZ

sdoebler wrote
is there rule reference?

4-5-4, "Basket, Choice": "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location."

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
Same scenario, but while they warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, all the players get discombobulated and go the incorrect way for several minutes, scoring several baskets, and only then is it realized that the player's screwed up?

BillyMac wrote
... the officials are also "fooled" and don't figure it out until several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams, into the game??

LRZ wrote
4-5-4, "Basket, Choice": "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location."

Nice citation LRZ. Thanks.

Does 4-5-4 cover the situation where a single player gets discombobulated and scores in the wrong basket, especially off the jump ball?

BillyMac wrote
... If discovered within seconds (warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, no backcourt) with only one basket scored, I'm counting the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered.

Am I wrong to count the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered in this single player case?

ilyazhito

BillyMac, I am of the opposite opinion, no AP arrow. If the officials, or the table cannot keep track of possessions correctly,
it will result in teams gaining unmerited possessions (and possibly undeserved points of the unmerited possessions). This is far more dangerous than teams lining up incorrectly, because teams in the wrong direction can be corrected at any time in the game, but an AP error can only be corrected before the throw-in ends. A jump ball, on the other hand, is a random process that does not depend on mechanical gadgets and people's memories. This is why I would rather have jump balls for all cases of disputed possessions.

BillyMac

ilyazhito wrote
I am of the opposite opinion, no AP arrow. A jump ball, on the other hand, is a random process that does not depend on mechanical gadgets and people's memories. This is why I would rather have jump balls ...

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.'s new best friend.

packersowner

BillyMac wrote
Oh, I almost forgot.

No more jump balls.

Start the game by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and use the alternating possession arrow after that, even to start any overtimes.

Also, a preemptive post to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: "Shut up".

Completely agree with this, it's a pointless exercise that is only done for basketball purists and those "magical" NCAA tournament shots from overhead. And while I have never seen an actual injury, I've heard plenty of stories about officials getting whacked during the process, or players coming down on an opponent's foot, and everything in between. Give the visiting team the ball to start the game and let's go from there, it would simplify a number of things.

griblets

packersowner wrote
... I have never seen an actual injury...

How's this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgiuM2TbnDc&has_verified=1

Where's the how to embed video thread?

Raymond

griblets wrote
How's this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgiuM2TbnDc&has_verified=1

Where's the how to embed video thread?

You have to take the share --> embed option in YouTube then paste the url that is provided into the url tags here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgiuM2TbnDc

Raymond

packersowner wrote
Completely agree with this, it's a pointless exercise that is only done for basketball purists and those "magical" NCAA tournament shots from overhead. And while I have never seen an actual injury, I've heard plenty of stories about officials getting whacked during the process....

Very good friend of mine got his first D1 experience b/c of this.

He had just worked a D2 game at Southern Indiana (when John Adams was a supervisor). As soon as he got in his car to start his drive back to Belleville, IL he turned on his radio to listen to the Evansville game, and just in time for the opening tip. The tossing official got clocked in the head and couldn't proceed. My friend immediately started driving toward Evansville while calling Adams. After some consultations between the powers that be (Adams, both ADs) my friend was allowed to officiate the 2nd half. Next season he received 18 assignments in the Horizon and Missouri Conference Conferences including a TV game between SIU and Illinois St.