Leaving the lineup

chapmaja

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Continue playing what? Game was over the minute a team when shorthanded by ejection.

this may be where the local modifications come in. We do allow playing with 9. They started with 10, so the ejection dropped them to 9, a legal number in league play.

I will twist the question a little bit for you.

Say the ejection doesn't happen. When does the team begin playing shorthanded, when the player leaves the dug out to go to work, or when it is his turn to bat or play defense? That really is the crux of the issue I am asking.

chapmaja

[QUOTE="Lurker"77;1007336]Can't speak to USA rulebook, but merely from a recreational sports angle, shouldn't any ruling treat this guy in his car going to work in the same way that it would treat a player in the restroom outside the dugout, tending to a situation with a child outside the dugout, a player who runs to the parking lot to grab a water bottle, or (in a different vein) an incapacitated/injured player who is listed in the lineup and in the dugout. If it does not delay/interfere with their involvement in play, how would the umpire on the field differentiate among them until something actually happens on the field in the game? Is a (recreational) player's work schedule or injury status--even in the obvious cases-- something an umpire's wants to claim knowledge and jurisdiction over?[/QUOTE]

This was my opinion of the situation also, but it has become an issue within the department to some extent.

CecilOne

L R A M B F ! ! again.

Does the alleged local rule SPECIFICALLY disagree with Irish's post?

Book rules are bad enough with gaps.

IRISHMAFIA

BlueDevilRef wrote
I say no. Especially in adult leagues. He could be in the beer line for all you really know. He has not left the game until his turn comes to bat or he is absent from defense without being subbed out.

The OP offered a "given" fact that the player was gone. But even if the player wasn't gone, a team cannot lose a player that takes them below the limit of players with which they started via ejection.

Then you have the issue where the permitted male/female ratio required is no longer available

Again this is based on the rules. What the local fools....er, rules do beyond that is up to and on them

chapmaja

IRISHMAFIA wrote
The OP offered a "given" fact that the player was gone. But even if the player wasn't gone, a team cannot lose a player that takes them below the limit of players with which they started via ejection.

Then you have the issue where the permitted male/female ratio required is no longer available

Again this is based on the rules. What the local fools....er, rules do beyond that is up to and on them

You still haven't answered the question that was really posed.

AT WHAT POINT HAS HE OFFICIALLY LEFT, WHEN HE LEAVES THE TEAM AREA, OR WHEN HIS TURN TO BAT COMES UP OR THE TEAM GOES ON DEFENSE?

CecilOne

chapmaja wrote
You still haven't answered the question that was really posed.

AT WHAT POINT HAS HE OFFICIALLY LEFT, WHEN HE LEAVES THE TEAM AREA, OR WHEN HIS TURN TO BAT COMES UP OR THE TEAM GOES ON DEFENSE?

"After he has completed his batting and base running duties, he has to leave for work. He has left the dugout when another batter male batter comes up to the plate"

robbie

chapmaja wrote
You still haven't answered the question that was really posed.

AT WHAT POINT HAS HE OFFICIALLY LEFT, WHEN HE LEAVES THE TEAM AREA, OR WHEN HIS TURN TO BAT COMES UP OR THE TEAM GOES ON DEFENSE?

Unless i see a rule to the contrary, in my game he is still "here" until he is either required to bat or to take the field and cannot do so.

IRISHMAFIA

robbie wrote
Unless i see a rule to the contrary, in my game he is still "here" until he is either required to bat or to take the field and cannot do so.

Bad news for you Robbie, it isn't YOUR game. The game belongs to the players or when the team reports his departure.

He has left the game when he picks up his equipment and leaves the ball park. The player leaving is IRRELEVANT to the ruling in this thread.

youngump

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Bad news for you Robbie, it isn't YOUR game. The game belongs to the players or when the team reports his departure.

He has left the game when he picks up his equipment and leaves the ball park. The player leaving is IRRELEVANT to the ruling in this thread.

The OP as posted had way too much going on and that makes you right about it being irrelevant.

But can we take a shot at the interesting meat of this question? Here's a new situation that addresses only the departure issue more squarely. Men's SP Team B is already playing shorthanded. Another player from Team B leaves the dugout in a) carrying his bag, in b) not carrying his bag. It's long way to the parking lot but he finally makes it there and throws his stuff in his car. He then drives out of the parking lot right past the field. At what point does the game end as a forfeit. And let's say it matters because it's the bottom of the last inning and team B has rallied to pull even and then potentially win at times appropriately intermixed with the leaving player's behavior to make the question interesting. Further, suppose the departing player does not come up to bat during the inning.

Dakota

youngump wrote
The OP as posted had way too much going on and that makes you right about it being irrelevant.

But can we take a shot at the interesting meat of this question? Here's a new situation that addresses only the departure issue more squarely. Men's SP Team B is already playing shorthanded. Another player from Team B leaves the dugout in a) carrying his bag, in b) not carrying his bag. It's long way to the parking lot but he finally makes it there and throws his stuff in his car. He then drives out of the parking lot right past the field. At what point does the game end as a forfeit. And let's say it matters because it's the bottom of the last inning and team B has rallied to pull even and then potentially win at times appropriately intermixed with the leaving player's behavior to make the question interesting. Further, suppose the departing player does not come up to bat during the inning.

I note that in your scenario nothing has apparently been officially reported to the plate umpire. Correct?

robbie

IRISHMAFIA wrote
Bad news for you Robbie, it isn't YOUR game. The game belongs to the players or when the team reports his departure.

He has left the game when he picks up his equipment and leaves the ball park. The player leaving is IRRELEVANT to the ruling in this thread.

Does a rule specifically say that?

Perhaps we was driving to 7/11 to get a slurpy and will be back for his AB or place in the field.

youngump

Dakota wrote
I note that in your scenario nothing has apparently been officially reported to the plate umpire. Correct?

That's how I'd imagined it. Team B certainly hasn't said anything. Would it matter if Team A does?

IRISHMAFIA

robbie wrote
Does a rule specifically say that?

Perhaps we was driving to 7/11 to get a slurpy and will be back for his AB or place in the field.

Read 4.1.A